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Do you agree with the quote?

Yes
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No
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Author Topic: Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!  (Read 1730 times)

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Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!
Hey everyone.  I got a favor to ask all of you.  A report paper with a survey is being required of me from my school.  Thus, I decided to create a research report paper that will target a comparison to MMORPGs based on sociology.  The paper will use the statistics of success and failures of released MMORPGs and the opinions of general gamers.

Last time I reviewed this forum, many people here had some strong insight in regards to what makes a MMORPG work and fail.  Thus, I would like to borrow that insight.

What i need is an HONEST vote to my question.  I need 40 votes and I need them fast.  Please review the question after reading the following.  Thanks so much.   :D

Quote
Quoted by Xenthorious
One of the most difficult things in developing a MMORPG is the complex sociology that must be expected.  A MMORPG which uses poor sociology expectancies tends to become quickly unbalanced.  A game that focuses too heavily in sociology tends to create a real life experience, which promote tedious outcomes often resulting to boredom.  Though every story has some form of capability to becoming a successful MMORPG, not all will be as successful as others.  This is mainly due to culture incompatibilities which limit the level of social integration into an MMORPG. The result is a chaotic and uncontrollable social constitution (sociology break down).
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!
*bump* you need more answers mate so im putting this back at the top. :yes:
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Re: Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!
*bump* you need more answers mate so im putting this back at the top. :yes:

It's good to have people watch out for you.   :lol:  Thanks a bunch man.

Once the paper is complete (with the survey), I'll release it to the public.

BTW, some people may think I mean society in this sentence within the quote: One of the most difficult things in developing a MMORPG is the complex sociology that must be expected.

However, the sentence is correct as is.  Every MMORPG development team is prepared to develop around the society in a MMORPG.  But few, in my opinion, are ready to study society enough to perform accurate developmential approaches to society.  Thus, the word sociology (the study of society) is the correct word.

I'm bringing this up, because of someone brought this to my attention and I'm sure others may have questioned it.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2006, 01:12:31 am by xenthorious »
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Offline achtung

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Re: Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!
I'm surprised you haven't had more of a turnout.  Come on folks, help a fellow forumite.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!
*bump* you need more answers mate so im putting this back at the top. :yes:

It's good to have people watch out for you.   :lol:  Thanks a bunch man.

Once the paper is complete (with the survey), I'll release it to the public.

BTW, some people may think I mean society in this sentence within the quote: One of the most difficult things in developing a MMORPG is the complex sociology that must be expected.

However, the sentence is correct as is.  Every MMORPG development team is prepared to develop around the society in a MMORPG.  But few, in my opinion, are ready to study society enough to perform accurate developmential approaches to society.  Thus, the word sociology (the study of society) is the correct word.

I'm bringing this up, because of someone brought this to my attention and I'm sure others may have questioned it.

Um, i'm not sure on 'sociology that must be expected' myself; surely 'sociology required in building a virtual 'society'' or something?   Why must it be expected, rather than required or necessitated?

Sorry, I've just read that question 2 or 3 times, and I'm still not sure exactly you're talking about; is it the sociological decision making in proactive design terms, the amount of reactive sociological adjustment, or the application of pre-existing sociological/psychological/group-dynamics type reasearch to both, etc?

 

Offline Ghostavo

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Re: Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!
MMORPGs suck.

There is my absolute unbiased opinion.














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Re: Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!
*bump* you need more answers mate so im putting this back at the top. :yes:

It's good to have people watch out for you.   :lol:  Thanks a bunch man.

Once the paper is complete (with the survey), I'll release it to the public.

BTW, some people may think I mean society in this sentence within the quote: One of the most difficult things in developing a MMORPG is the complex sociology that must be expected.

However, the sentence is correct as is.  Every MMORPG development team is prepared to develop around the society in a MMORPG.  But few, in my opinion, are ready to study society enough to perform accurate developmential approaches to society.  Thus, the word sociology (the study of society) is the correct word.

I'm bringing this up, because of someone brought this to my attention and I'm sure others may have questioned it.

Um, i'm not sure on 'sociology that must be expected' myself; surely 'sociology required in building a virtual 'society'' or something?   Why must it be expected, rather than required or necessitated?

Sorry, I've just read that question 2 or 3 times, and I'm still not sure exactly you're talking about; is it the sociological decision making in proactive design terms, the amount of reactive sociological adjustment, or the application of pre-existing sociological/psychological/group-dynamics type reasearch to both, etc?

MMORPG is always in development, before and after release.  This is mainly due to keep it balanced with the society.  Thus, pre-existing and existing sociological/psychological/group-dynamics type research to both is what I’m implying.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!
Except that the initial base design (design document stage) is very much responsible for determining the sociological context players find themselves in, so surely it is more important than post-release design as both the technical architecture and player frame-of-reference restrict what can be altered once the game goes 'live'?

 
Re: Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!
Except that the initial base design (design document stage) is very much responsible for determining the sociological context players find themselves in, so surely it is more important than post-release design as both the technical architecture and player frame-of-reference restrict what can be altered once the game goes 'live'?

That's true, but post-releases also include alteration of design through use of expansions, which could ultimately be just as important.  If you change the temp of water in a fish bowl to fast, you can kill the fish. The same thing applies here.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!
Except that the initial base design (design document stage) is very much responsible for determining the sociological context players find themselves in, so surely it is more important than post-release design as both the technical architecture and player frame-of-reference restrict what can be altered once the game goes 'live'?

That's true, but post-releases also include alteration of design through use of expansions, which could ultimately be just as important.  If you change the temp of water in a fish bowl to fast, you can kill the fish. The same thing applies here.

Except I don't think that's a fair analogy due to, again, technical and setting limitations for the vast, vast, vast majority of cases; that magnitude of change would be like inserting on-foot ground based-missions into Eve, or adding an RTS component to Everquest (the closest example I can think of; the game killing SW:G changes, doesn't cover the scope necessary).  I appreciate your point, but I think the design of any actual game will restrict changes to said game, including those of a sociological nature.

 

Offline Wobble73

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Re: Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!
I'd love to help but I haven't the foggiest what you're on about, sorry!
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Re: Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!
I’m not entirely following you.  Don’t get me wrong, I read it over 4 times but I’m still unsure what you mean.  I’m assuming (and correct me if I’m wrong); you are comparing MMORPG as a game that holds less residual effect from that of my fish bowl metaphor.

If that be the case, then allow me to argue my point.  Simply because a MMORPG is a game does not necessarily mean it has any less in integrity of that of a fish expressed in my metaphor.  Everyone that plays the game has a duel set of missions.  The first is that of playing a game; to have fun.  The other however, is the meet one’s identifying point, which allows them to associate themselves to something they value; often the personality that blends with the role of who they play.  Even the mildest of players who do not respect the fundamental rule set of the denotation brought from the word Role-Playing still act as an entity within a vivid society. Despite the support or lack of playing a role to the character, everyone, weather in MMORPG or in real life identifies themselves to some form of object or clause. 

With this said, a society being a mass of people with this same attribute have both intertwining and conflicting interests.  If by some form, something in the game dramatically changes, the balance of these interests would become tainted to a personal level.  This results in a dramatic change of opinions, which normally moves for the worse, since it invades a person at a personal level.

Think of it this way:  In real life, what would happen if I had full control over the stock market and decided to change the value of everything you could buy in your own country from its current value to a fee of no cost.  This would result in everyone going to get the products they desire instantly.  But within a few weeks, people’s mentality would begin to decay and people begin to lose value for their jobs, their houses, the assets in general.  As time goes own, the specified country would appear just as distorted as the minds of those who live in it.  Corruption would fill the void quickly and you would have a change of political structure (a change in society).  In real life, as hard or easy as this may be to adopt, the same does not apply in a game because the inner politics are replaced by hard coded rule patterns that derived from pre-released development and pre-society expectancies.  Yin-Yang is the fundamental rule I’m expressing here.  One can not live without the other, and both hold equal importance.

A long time ago, in Ever Quest, I was a player who had the luxury of experiencing a small sample of this.  Apparently, the development team changed a feature in the necromancers that was heavily used and not classified as anything faulty.  Immediately following the change of this feature, almost every player using a necromancer with a level above 20 gathered up in front of Neriak (city of the dark elves) and went on strike.  The numbers were so high; the development team had to get the president of the company to act as a character to sooth the players in real time due to risks of the server crashing. This was a result of a dramatic change to only one class.  What if it was changed to all of them?

In Dark Age of Camelot, Mythic Entertainment changed the policy or rather, the very structure of how a person would use the realm ability system found in the game.  In addition to this, dramatic changes in the game were made for the better; graphics, realm wars, siege weapons and much more were examples of these changes.  A normal person, as did the Mythic Entertainment team, would believe this would be a great idea.  But the simple change in how a person used the realm ability system caused many people who became heavily dependant on it to quickly dislike Mythic and go as far as looking for alternative avenues.  As a result in a large player drop, Mythic created a new server that harbored the old system.  Unfortunately, this server opened only after World of Warcraft released, and now their 3000 login population per server can often be seen as numbers under 200.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2006, 07:42:16 am by xenthorious »
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!
Society - or the capacity for societal interaction - is defined by the game context.  The game context itself is the basic game design; what is done, what is possible to be done, i.e. the complete bounds of potential experiences and methods of interaction.  This is finitely bounded; it's not just a conceptual design decision, but something which critically impacts the software architecture and implementation.  i.e. the initial design, constricts all possible future changes.

So, changes made post-release are essentially always on a meta-level; the removal or addition of a skill is actually pretty trivial in the context of possible social interaction.  Whilst there is a social response, surely the issue is what change or expansion can you make to change that response, not to garner it?  Because, to me, a sociological change implies changing the society, not causing a reaction; ergo I would say it naturally entails that the sociological makeup of your 'gamer society' is going to be overwhelmingly determined by the initial game.

My specific point being, that technology itself precludes sociological change post-release due to the limitations placed upon possible contextual interactions.

 
Re: Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!
My specific point being, that technology itself precludes sociological change post-release due to the limitations placed upon possible contextual interactions.

Yet it’s that very subject that I challenge in the quote.  Being too dependent on bias sociological studies is the very foundation of failure, or at least to my opinion. As you clarified, most companies will preclude expectancies rather then maintain the study.  My quote doesn’t define one stage of development, but rather the entire course of the MMORPG’s life cycle. The focus of development is isolated mainly in bulk to pre-release, but society is dynamic throughout infinity and can dramatically revert into a completely opposing state with the simplest of changes.  If society is not studied prior to a dramatic change in a MMORPG, then the alteration damage the foundation of the player’s opinion poll because they tackle the ethics and personal interconnections between a player and his/her identity marker. This in turn creates a reoccurrence of other discreet damaging effects and a domino effect is seen.  Such is that, with my example of DAoC, when Mythic’s mistake was made and not repaired prior to Blizzard’s release of World of Warcraft.

BTW, this chat with you is most exciting.  :)
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Re: Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!
Still need 20 more votes, don't care if they are yes or no, but need 20 more.  Thanks.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Report Paper, Poll Required, please review!
My specific point being, that technology itself precludes sociological change post-release due to the limitations placed upon possible contextual interactions.

Yet it’s that very subject that I challenge in the quote.  Being too dependent on bias sociological studies is the very foundation of failure, or at least to my opinion. As you clarified, most companies will preclude expectancies rather then maintain the study.  My quote doesn’t define one stage of development, but rather the entire course of the MMORPG’s life cycle. The focus of development is isolated mainly in bulk to pre-release, but society is dynamic throughout infinity and can dramatically revert into a completely opposing state with the simplest of changes.  If society is not studied prior to a dramatic change in a MMORPG, then the alteration damage the foundation of the player’s opinion poll because they tackle the ethics and personal interconnections between a player and his/her identity marker. This in turn creates a reoccurrence of other discreet damaging effects and a domino effect is seen.  Such is that, with my example of DAoC, when Mythic’s mistake was made and not repaired prior to Blizzard’s release of World of Warcraft.

ah.  Well, I'd agree that the sociology of the existing group is - or should be - a key aspect in terms of changes made (particularly from an economic standpoint), but what I'm saying is that I believe the core sociological makeup is defined at/by the start of the design process; that is, expansion packs can add perhaps a more fine-grained set of actions, but only within the existing context that defines the society.  Like, a change such as the aformentioned DAoC / Everquest ones will provoke a response, perhaps angry, but not result in a fundamental change to the sociological dynamics (I'm not sure of a perfect analogy, but perhaps it'd be akin to a society willingly abandoning a capitalist mentality for a communist or anarchic one).

(I'm left wondering about 'sandbox' MMORPGs like Second Life, now; effectively self-deterministic social groups, where the user composition determines the society through free action)

Albeit it occurs to me that gaming communities - societies - in this context might be considered inherently unpredictable and chaotic; aside from the sort of 'softcore throughput' of people who either play irregularly or only for a few months altering the general makeup of the society on a very flexible basis (i.e. the hardcore, whilst moany, are likely to be the most loyal in respect to change), I think the very medium does tend to prevent application of known rules regarding 'real' group dynamics.  (actually, it strikes me as interesting to consider whether the limited 'grain' of actions possible in an MMORPG make it easier or harder to anaylze group behaviour; on the one hand there's generally a very simple boolean set of actions and consequences, but the mechanics of these are vastly different to the equivalent real world actions - plus the consideration of how any reward for bullying, etc behaviour like PK-ing or drop-stealing impacts behaviour vis-a-vis real life)

BTW, this chat with you is most exciting.  :)


Er....crikey.





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