[Ashrak]

humans invented time, there really is no such thing



and an infinite engine is well possible aslong as it ignores time and just keeps looping back to where it had fuel to go back

infinite loop though

[Fragrag]

Reminds me of that Isaac Asimov short story

[achtung]

It's getting energy from somewhere.  I say even if this is true, he's just not noticed where the energy was coming from.

[Descenterace]

I'm reminded of a situation in Schlock Mercenary (I think) where devices are invented that 'create' energy, but are later discovered to be taking it from the past. No one cares until they realise they're impoverishing the present. So then they go and invent a means of taking energy from the future...

That's Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy, forgot which book though.

Ah, thanks! I haven't read HHGTTG in ages; maybe I should buy it and add it to my collection permanently...

[Wobble73]

humans invented time, there really is no such thing

No, humans invented units in which to measure time, how could we possibly invent time, time passed before there was humans???

[Mefustae]

Settle down, i'm sure he was just joking. Sheesh.

[Tyrian]

Any word yet on the verdict of the panel of experts who said they would validate this thing?  Or has the panel yet to be formed?

[MatthewPapa]

dunno, but id like to know also

[IPAndrews]

Any word yet on the verdict of the panel of experts who said they would validate this thing?  Or has the panel yet to be formed?

Yes we want answers dammit.

[karajorma]

It will not be a panel of experts in the field if James Randi isn't on it

[Turambar]

Reminds me of that Isaac Asimov short story

The Last Question

i love that one.

[Sandwich]

...no it's not.

1st grade perpetuum mobile is a closed system which, when X amount of energy is put in, starts increasing that amount of energy, so that net energy level increases. In this case, the enthropy of the system decreases (ie. energy potential differences are created without using energy to create them).

2nd grade perpetuum mobile is a closed system which runs without energy losses forever. In this case the enhtropy of the system is constant.

The universe (or possibly multiverse, in case the universes interact each other is a closed system) is a closed system, but the entropy of universe increases all the time until there are no energy potentials to draw motion from. In that point the enthropy of universe has reached its maximum level and can't be increased any more, but this is not a 2nd grade perpetuum mobile, because in this phase, the universe "won't run" any more. Everything stops when energy potentials are all smoothened up and everything is just a homogenous space with standard energy level everywhere. That's called "thermal death" of the universe, and it's tho most probable course of future for our universe.

This is how the world ends.

However, it is true that the second law of thermodynamics was broken in the beginning of the universe, but that's quite natural because enthropy is bound to time, and before universe there was no time, so there was no dynamics to be broken.

Most likely the universe as we see it is just a prolonged massive fluctuation in quantum vacuum. It's still quite cool, eh?

Ok, who are you, and why do you (sound like you) know all this stuff?

[Herra Tohtori]

I study physics. Need I say more?

[Tyrian]

Herra = Physics guru.  He schooled me in another thread once...My mind still bears the stretch marks from sudden cranial expansion.   

[Ashrak]

so has this been confirmed to be real? (not likely)

[Herra Tohtori]

Steorn Challenge


They are at the end of process of getting a list of scientists who are willing to form the independent jury that is supposed to define whether this thing works or not.

There's only one day left at the counter, so they're supposedly soon starting their Pre-Phase 1 stage. That includes "Analysing list of scientists, contact and verify interest, choose twelve and negotiate terms."

almost 5000 scientists have seemingly announced they are willing to participate.

After that's done, the actual work will begin. And nuts as it may sound like, I'm actually eagerly waiting for results. This doesn't seem to be a simple hoax as most "free-energy" enterprizes are, mainly because they are not commercializing anything before the committee has done its work and verified the technology.

Only way this could possibly be a hoax is if it's some kind of promotion plot with huge risk of losing support in the end... but as they say, there's no bad publicity.

Anyway, you can sign up on e-mail list to be among first ones to receive the results. I did so, let's see if anything will ever drop into my inbox from Steorn... If you want to risk getting spammed, get into their homepage and throw your e-mail in.


What I find disturbing is that the poll counter is showing that most of who answered seem to think that science should *not* accept the challenge. I don't understand that attitude. AS I earlier said, what happens, does happens and if the devices are what they areclaimed to be it'd be a damn good thing. If they aren't, so what, there's really nothing to lose in this. Except Steorn has their integrity to lose.

[Sandwich]

I would not be surprised to discover that it's not a perpetual-motion device, but something of possibly more import - a way of tapping into and making use of some sort of underlying energy field... maybe even one that emanates from all living beings, and binds the universe together!

[Herra Tohtori]

Of course the energy does not come from nothing, that much is clear.

AS for whether or not we know where the energy comes or how it is produced (if is, it's not been confirmed yet and it'll take some more time - probably at least weeks and actually most likely months until the 12-member jury has inspected the technology thoroughly), that's the real trick.

[Ashrak]

it cant be perpetual moting, or the universe would never end because it would never reach maximum entropy


but it might be some new cool powersource which has very low entropy for the power it produces

[watsisname]

Or maybe it could reveal new technology that will lead to subspace drives. 

Anyways, I'm also awaiting the official results.  My gut feeling says it'll end up being a miscalculation/error, but I sure hope it's something new and unexpected.