[Mike_A36]

This relates to the "Poor man's newtonian physics"  thread but it was a month old and I didn't want to bump it.

 But I followed the directions from the thread I made a tbm that has glide (Yes) and x,y velocities in it. I also have a Saitek X36 throttle and Joystick combo that I programed to the controls and bam I can glide at the push of a button and skit sideways or up and down with a hat switch. It is to cool.

 The only problem is I can't fire the guns while moving sideways or up and down. Probably something with the joystick mapping program.

When messing around in the game i was able to completely circle a stationary target with my guns never leaving the target. It took some doing but it worked! Well up until the game locked up from overheating of the GPU but thats another problem.

This could add a whole 'nother dimension to the game (pun intended)!

Oh well noob rant over. Back to your regularly scheduled forums.

[Snail]

Shivan ships can glide right (in FS1 anyway)?

[Dark Hunter]

The Scorpion can, as can the Dragon I think. One of the bombers can too.... think it was the Shaitan.


This looks interesting. Can you post the table?

[Mike_A36]

O.K. remember you are talking to a complete noob. Please walk me through just how to post anything. I am ashamed to say I do not know how.

O.k. I found the additional options button and attached the file. I named it just like in the example on the "Poor man's Newtonian physics" thread.

I made all the velocities 1/2 of the max z.  In the previous thread someone was going to try to make the x,y controls into a bindable axis instead of just buttons. That would be great if it could be done since my saitek can program hat switches as either buttons or axis(s). I am not sure what the slide does or how to get it to work though but I put in some numbers for it also.

Oh yeah it goes in the C:\Games\Freespace2\mediavps\data\tables folder and I have to turn off keylock on my keyboard because i set up the controls to be shift+pad3 (Right thrust) and shift+pad1(Left thrust) the Up thrust and Down thrust I left as default.

sorry for the delay in response I was at work when I posted earlier and Real Life takes over when I get home until the kiddo's go to bed.



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[Dark Hunter]

I'm not sure that it's named correctly, but I'll try it out.

I've been wanting to slide ever since I found out I couldn't in Freespace (I'd played an awful lotta Descent beforehand).



EDIT: Good news, the table isn't crashing Freespace. Bad news, it's not doing anything else either.

I don't believe I have keylock on, but just in case: how do you toggle it?

[Mike_A36]

Ok I had to rename with the .txt extension in order to post it. Rename it to glide-shp.tbm and stick it in the Freespace2\mediavps\data\tables folder. I do not know if you have to turn of your numlock on your keyboard or not I just had to to get it to work because changed the default keys to read from the keypad.  The default keys in freespace are:

Glide = ALT+G
Up Thrust = SHIFT + PAD +
Down Thrust= SHIFT + PAD ENTER
Left Thrust = SHIFT + 1
Right Thrust = SHIFT + 3

Any more detail than that I will have to turn it over to someone else 'cause I simply do not know. I was just excited because I got it to work on my machine. Which considering I have no modding, or coding experiance at all, is a big deal. But I just followed the directions in the thread about newtonian physics. I didn't come up with this idea someone else did I just followed thier example. 

 

[Zacam]

Do the ships affected still retain their "retail" forward velocity? When I played around with it, I noted that adding the extra x/y's increased the overall foreward speeds. I had myrmidon's traveling at almost AB speeds without AB! (and when I did kick on the AB it only jumped the speed up 15)

[Dark Hunter]

I'll check that thread, cause it isn't working for me....

[Mike_A36]

I haven't noticed the ships going that fast but hey I just got it to working without crashing. I will try to be more observant and let you know.

[ME$$ENGER]

I'll check that thread, cause it isn't working for me....

If you are using media vp files, try to put the table into the mediavp folder instead (assuming you are using the MOD method). I suspect the table file may have been overridden by the tbm in the vps.

[BS403]

Shivan Ships that can glide dragon, basilisk, manticore, scorpion, shaitan, nephilim, and seraphim. in other words all fighters and bomners for the shivans in FS1.

[neoterran]

NEAT ! 

[Zacam]

NOTE: In FS1, the "Dragon (terrans)" you fly doesn't have reverse. So anyone wanting to apply Glide settings should make sure that $Rear Velocity: 0.0. While it would be nice to change that and cheat, it fly's (no pun intented) in the face of the briefing.

[Zacam]

I did notice that Retail forward velocity is modified. I've dingled a bit with some values to make sure that side to side still worked while retaining "OEM" (har har!) Forward Velocity. It also seems that most ships with a Rear Velocity have it at a formulae of Max / 3.2 = Rear (rounded), so I've applied that.

So, for "Retail" slide 'n' glide, grab glide-shp.tbm. Works best going into Freespace2\mediavps\data\tables.

For non-Retail FV, Mike_A36's TBM works just fine. In fact, I rather like the ratio of side-to-side percentage of forward and some nice deliniations on the slide accel and slide decel. If it were not for wanting a "purist" Retail Campaign compatible solution, I'd exclusively use his.

NOTE: This is for FS2 ships so far only. I'll release one for FSPort shortly once I fully test to ensure "Retail" FV's on all ships there.

[Backslash]

Great to see the continued interest in gliding/sliding and all that!  Fun innit

Good for you, Mike_A36.  See how useful .tbm is!  Heh, turns out your table values are exactly the same as what I chose for mine a few months ago.

Interesting, Zacam.  Comparing your table to his makes the problem more apparent, so now I do think that the odd increased forward velocity is a bug.  I'll look into it.

[Zacam]

Yeah. I don't like how low the velocities have to go for side/side (in this case, first "side" is "left-right" and the second "side" is "up-down") in order to retain retail forward....side/side _should_ be capable of at max 1/2 forward _without_ bumping up the forward to an insane number.

Cramping it down to keep retail forward almost kills the idea save for the implimentation of glide and being able to go in reverse (finally!)

Also, I tried playing with the settings independantly of each other (IE: 0.0, 7.5, 75.0 and 7.5, 0.0, 75.0 ) and in either case, once you start going above 10% of the forward (75.0 in this case) you start getting an increase in forward max vel. (This isn't a "fixed" value, mind. 75.0 can range from 7.0 to 8.5 dependant on (apparently) some other variables with the ship. So a ship with a max of 90 can use up to 9.0-9.9 (setting anything to 10.0 is an immediate increase) )

Hope this helps in tracking it.

[Backslash]

Aha!  I found it!

Turns out it is using a vector magnitude to get the max speed, so the square root of (a^2 + b^2 + c^2).  That's why you had to keep the slide speeds so low.  Well, this is sort of not really a bug but an unintented consequence -- I may have to ask the team about this... I'm sure most of the time max_speed is supposed to only involve Z (forward/back), but are there situations where we'd want it to involve sliding?

In the meantime, until this 'bug' is fixed (if it will be), you can do this: increase the slide speeds and lower the forward speed, since technically the forward speed is ignored in favor of the magnitude of the whole.  If you want the slide speeds to be half the official forward speed, if I'm doing the math right: N = sqrt((Z^2)/2), where Z is the 'official' forward speed, and N gives you the new speed to put in the table.

[Zacam]

I had a feeling it was something causality related. Thanks for confirming that, back to playing with numbers. :-)

And to cover something mentioned in the first post: I too would like to be able to map HAT/POV to slide instead of it just assuming I want to change my camera view angle. I rarely change the camera and my current stick only has one HAT/POV.

[Wanderer]

Aha!  I found it!

Turns out it is using a vector magnitude to get the max speed, so the square root of (a^2 + b^2 + c^2).  That's why you had to keep the slide speeds so low.  Well, this is sort of not really a bug but an unintented consequence -- I may have to ask the team about this... I'm sure most of the time max_speed is supposed to only involve Z (forward/back), but are there situations where we'd want it to involve sliding?

In the meantime, until this 'bug' is fixed (if it will be), you can do this: increase the slide speeds and lower the forward speed, since technically the forward speed is ignored in favor of the magnitude of the whole.  If you want the slide speeds to be half the official forward speed, if I'm doing the math right: N = sqrt((Z^2)/2), where Z is the 'official' forward speed, and N gives you the new speed to put in the table.

Are you 100% sure? I made a script that shows the true lenght of ships velocity vector on screen and it is (a bit) different than the normally displayed velocity. Also if you try gliding the velocity indicator doesnt show the lenght of true velocity vector as you can alter the reading by rotating the ship which has absolutely no influence to velocity vector while gliding.

[Backslash]

Zacam, can't you just map your hat to the thrust up/down/left/right controls?

Wanderer: 99% sure, because I'm looking at the code, not just the in-flight results.  IMO it's kind of silly, because first it turns the vector velocity into a 'max speed' value, then it uses that max speed value for only the throttle (which is Z axis only).  Thus the displayed value doesn't have much to do with your actual velocity.

(me digs up your script)  Hmm.  Well, the current implementation of gliding is semi-hackish; as a result I suspect the script is not looking in the right place for the value (or rather, it is looking in the right place, but while gliding the values in that right place are ignored anyway).  An example in a related problem:  try colliding with something while gliding.  See how collision physics is completely ignored?

I'm working on a (still-hackish-but-hopefully-less-so) solution that will merge my semi-newtonian changes with a fix to this mentioned problem and a couple other things.   The main thing slowing me down at this point is figuring out a proper acceleration model that takes the damping into account.  Hey, any of you much good with math involving natural logarithms?