[Freespace Freak]

I'm currently trying to write a story on a campaign I'm working on, and I don't want to interfere with canon lore.  First of all, I've read the Freespace Bible, but does anyone know if there is such a thing as an FS2 Bible?  Also, I got this node map from Snail. 

It looks official enough, but I have some problems with it.  First of all, in Freespace 1, the Shivans entered T-V space from Ikeya and Ross 128.  We know they detroyed Riviera outpost at Ross 128 first, then they destroyed all forces in Ikeya.  Problem, these two systems are 6 jumps away!  Additionally, Ross 128 is only 2 jumps away from Sol, but how did they miss it?  Furthermore, lets say they used an unstable jump node from Ross 128 to Ikeya, and brought their entire forces with them, so they wouldn't prematurely find Earth.  It was stated that it was in our best interest to defend Vasuda because from there it's a short walk to Earth.  However, according to this map, the Shivans would have to turn around to get to Earth from Vasuda.  It just doesn't make any sense.

[Snail]

Oh, BTW, I didn't make it.

[Freespace Freak]

Oh, BTW, I didn't make it.

I know you didn't.  Was it made by BWO?  Or was it somethin somebody dug up from official files?

[Snail]

Check yer pm's.

[Freespace Freak]

I got it, but I still want those other questions anwered if anyone here think they can lend their deep wisdom and expertise.  Namely, is there an FS2 Bible, and all that other stuff about how in hell did the Shivans miss Sol.

[aldo_14]

I'm currently trying to write a story on a campaign I'm working on, and I don't want to interfere with canon lore.  First of all, I've read the Freespace Bible, but does anyone know if there is such a thing as an FS2 Bible?  Also, I got this node map from Snail. 

It looks official enough, but I have some problems with it.  First of all, in Freespace 2, the Shivans entered T-V space from Ikeya and Ross 128.  We know they detroyed Riviera outpost at Ross 128 first, then they destroyed all forces in Ikeya.  Problem, these two systems are 6 jumps away!  Additionally, Ross 128 is only 2 jumps away from Sol, but how did they miss it?  Furthermore, lets say they used an unstable jump node from Ross 128 to Ikeya, and brought their entire forces with them, so they wouldn't prematurely find Earth.  It was stated that it was in our best interest to defend Vasuda because from there it's a short walk to Earth.  However, according to this map, the Shivans would have to turn around to get to Earth from Vasuda.  It just doesn't make any sense.

Volition changed the nodemap between FS1 and FS2; there are obvious inconsistencies (which are handily documented in the Wiki), such as the absence of a 'Talania' (or something like that) system, and FS1 indicating 3 nodes from/to Sol.  Of course, it's worth noting the Shivans likely used unstable nodes not charted (what better way to circumnavigate a blockade), so they wouldn't necessarily have attacked in the 'expected' manner as indicated by the nodemap.  Of course, that also only adds questions about the sanctity of Sol......

Likely (well, likely IMO) story is, they didn't know where Sol or Vasuda was, and possibly focused their attack - and search - based on areas of high subspace traffic/activity, which quite possibly would mean first attacking the T-V War conflict zones.  We don't know, natch, if the Shivans were gathering intel during the war (through any means), or what precautions there were for safeguarding the location of Sol.

EDIT; one other, less apparent, reason could be that the Shivans were testing the GTA and PVN (and later GTVA), and deliberately avoided going for the jugular to keep the test 'fair'.  Another is that the Shivans were searching for A.N. Other thing, which took precedence over their xenophobic desire to wipe out the vastly inferior GTVA forces (and which would potentially relegate the Shivan fleet to be the scout fleet as on the rather dodgy source of the FS2 box).  Along the same lines, the Lucifer fleet could have been mapping GTVA space for some reason or to find some object whilst they were attacking; possibly again only wiping out the likes of Vasuda Prime and GTVA forces, etc, as an 'afterthought'.

[Cobra]

First of all, in Freespace 2

shouldn't that be Freespace 1?

We all know that Shivans are capable of using unstable and uncharted jump nodes. Or they're capable of massive jumps to and from systems that would normally take a GTA or PVN (or GTVA ship in Freespace 2) 2 jumps via subspace nodes.

[Freespace Freak]

First of all, in Freespace 2

shouldn't that be Freespace 1?

We all know that Shivans are capable of using unstable and uncharted jump nodes. Or they're capable of massive jumps to and from systems that would normally take a GTA or PVN (or GTVA ship in Freespace 2) 2 jumps via subspace nodes.

Yes, sorry.  Freespace 1, I mean.  I'll edit that.  Anyway, I know it is canon that they can do that, but is the Ross 128-Ikeya an example or is that speculation?

[Dark Hunter]

I wonder why the Shivan Nebula is called "Lupus Nebula" in that nodemap. Thought it wasn't on GTVA star charts? They always called it "the nebula" in the main game.


As for Ross 128 and Ikeya, I think that the only reasonable explanation is that there's an unstable corridor there. Think, if not, then the Lucifer would have had to pass through Delta Serpentis, one jump away from Earth. If it had come through that way, it would have explored the DS-Sol node and wiped Earth out. But, instead, it next appeared at Ribos, and blasted the hell outta Freespace's Pearl Harbor analog (Tombaugh Station). Also, why would the Shivans have gone through that one node into Ikeya, when it's a border dead end system? They must have come in from another direction.


As for "short walk to Earth", if you study the nodemap of FS1's final missions, it shows a jump corridor between Sirius and Delta Serpentis. Why they decided to get rid of it later is beyond me, but in that context it makes more sense, as Sirius is right alongside Deneb, which at the time was Shivan-occupied.

[Freespace Freak]

Well, I think you've just convinced me.  The discrepencies in the node maps between FS1 and FS2 are so vast they're mutually incompatible.  Since my campaign is based around mostly the FS1 universe, I think I'm going to have to use the FS1 node map.  Since I know of none off-hand, I'm afraid I'll just have to make one from scratch by studying the main campaign briefing animations.

Oh, and here's the lupus nebula for those of you who are interested.

[karajorma]

I wonder why the Shivan Nebula is called "Lupus Nebula" in that nodemap. Thought it wasn't on GTVA star charts? They always called it "the nebula" in the main game.

There are a bunch of people who think the time the Lupus Nebula appeared corresponds nicely enough with the time the Ancients were wiped out to say that the Shivans created the nebula at the same time.
Problem I have with that theory is explaining how the 2nd Knossos portal survived the supernova.

[Dark Hunter]

How long does it take supernovas to cool down? I've heard that it would take hundreds of thousands, if not millions, or years to make them traversable. The Ancients died out 8,000 years ago. Wouldn't a supernova had still been impossibly hot?

[Mars]

Nebula's don't block your view within meters of distance.

Capella is a quadruple star system

Deneb would probably be uninhabitable.

I don't see any reason in FS why a super nova couldn't cool down in 8,000 years

[Aardwolf]

I always thought that the Shivans were just on both sides of the GTA/PVN space to begin with, and that was how they entered from two systems so far apart. Does the Lucifer appear on both sides?

[Dark Hunter]

Ross 128 and Ikeya are practically next door to each other, except for the fact that have no (stable) jump corridor. The Shivans have only ever attacked from the "east" side of the nodemap.