[Raptor]

 My PCS woes continue, but now things have gone weird...

I just converted the latest version of my GTD Hera hull (without turrets), sorted the engine glows and was going to see how it looked in game.

Only thing is just like the Cylon basestars I've converted over the last mont or so, it caused FRED and FS to hang(but not modelview)

For a laugh, I pointed the tbl entry to the older model... and I got this!


See the hard edged outline?  That's the ships stern!

The ship is psyically there, since I can shoot it and run into it, but it is completely invisible!  Aside from the thruster glows.

The ship has a jpg and a standard pcx map to draw on...

I just wish I knew what is happening with these two models.  I can't see anything wrong with them.  I'll have to try converting a couple of other ships (and pray that the old ones stop working like the Base Star did...)

[Colonol Dekker]

Check the textures names against the textures and locations..........

They're obviously not getting drawn for some strange reason,...................Stealthy though.

[Vasudan Admiral]

Use DDS on the textures for a start.

As for the versions that hang Fred and the game - send me the cob/scn files and pofs if you like, and I'll have a look at them - since it really could be anything.

[Raptor]

Check the textures names against the textures and locations..........

They're obviously not getting drawn for some strange reason,...................Stealthy though.

I think I've been modding long enough to check that (I started before SCP began)

No offence intended

Use DDS on the textures for a start.

Wish I could.  I know I'm supposed to add a dll file somewhere, and then do something with Paint Shop Pro 7 to get it to recognise the format... but I can't remember what/where/how...

As for the versions that hang Fred and the game - send me the cob/scn files and pofs if you like, and I'll have a look at them - since it really could be anything.

Thanks for the offer. 8)  Mail sent.  I really am not an expert on the whole cob->pof thing.  I model and table... then muddle through the rest.

[Vasudan Admiral]

To allow PSP to open DDS, just stick the attached .8bi file into your plugins directory in PSP's main folder (if it doesn't exist, add it).

Anything else to do with DDS can be found here: http://developer.nvidia.com/object/nv_texture_tools.html so just look through that for whatever takes your fancy. I got the thumbnail viewer and WTV.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[WMCoolmon]

Come to think of it, that's a pretty neat cloaking effect. I wonder how it would look with some kind of transparency distortion texture?

[Raptor]

Thanks VA

Come to think of it, that's a pretty neat cloaking effect. I wonder how it would look with some kind of transparency distortion texture?

That's what I thought, hence the title

[Vasudan Admiral]

...hold on a second....it hangs in both Fred and FS?
That's not actually a crash kinda hang. That's the Fred or the game building the cache files (the IBX's) for the first time!

Since both models are quite complex, it's taking a while to build the cache files. I have an AMD 3800+ with 2 gigs of RAM, and it took me 1:43 to finish on the basestar, and a minute to do the hera. Both work in Fred now* - and though I can't test right now, I'd expect they work in game too.

Here's the cache files mine generated: http://sectorfiles.net/ti-file-dump/VasudanAdmiral/RaptorsIBXs.zip

Whack them in your FreeSpace2\data\cache folder, and see if you can then place them in fred and view them in FS. However, these cache files will only work as long as the pofs you have in your models directory match the ones in the zip you sent me. If you've updated them in any way, it will 'hang' again.
If it does, or in the future, just let it run for at least 5 minutes before killing it, since chances are that it's still working.

* - I do however get an error when loading the Hera for a first time in Fred: "Serious problem loading model Hera2.pof, 66 normals capped to zero"
I found the spot in modelread.cpp which spits out this message, but couldn't figure out where the int "Parse_normal_problem_count" is set, so I still don't really know what it means.
Could a coder help there?

[taylor]

* - I do however get an error when loading the Hera for a first time in Fred: "Serious problem loading model Hera2.pof, 66 normals capped to zero"
I found the spot in modelread.cpp which spits out this message, but couldn't figure out where the int "Parse_normal_problem_count" is set, so I still don't really know what it means.
Could a coder help there?

It's from bad normals in the model (though FRED is the only thing that reports this), but you know that much already.  Bad normals are identifed as any xyz vector value being out of range (ie. "(x * x) < 0" would be a failure), or any xyz vector value being NaN.

[Raptor]

...hold on a second....it hangs in both Fred and FS?
That's not actually a crash kinda hang. That's the Fred or the game building the cache files (the IBX's) for the first time!

Since both models are quite complex, it's taking a while to build the cache files. I have an AMD 3800+ with 2 gigs of RAM, and it took me 1:43 to finish on the basestar, and a minute to do the hera. Both work in Fred now* - and though I can't test right now, I'd expect they work in game too.

Here's the cache files mine generated: http://sectorfiles.net/ti-file-dump/VasudanAdmiral/RaptorsIBXs.zip

Whack them in your FreeSpace2\data\cache folder, and see if you can then place them in fred and view them in FS. However, these cache files will only work as long as the pofs you have in your models directory match the ones in the zip you sent me. If you've updated them in any way, it will 'hang' again.
If it does, or in the future, just let it run for at least 5 minutes before killing it, since chances are that it's still working.

Okay, I'll try that.  Doesn't really surprise me that it would take forever to build said files, considering the size of the pof files themselves. 

Maybe Kazen can get PCS2 to generate smaller pof files? [/retorical]

Not sure about the bad normals thing though...  The only things with normals are the engine glows and the eyepoint (if it has it)

[Vasudan Admiral]

Thanks Taylor.
Would that be faulty normals in terms of collision mesh and/or rendering? (ie, where, if anywhere could we expect visible problems to arise because of this?)

Either way, it sounds like it might warrent a reconversion. I'll try that now on the Hera cob I have and see if the same error crops up.


Raptor: I'm pretty sure it's refering to the normals of polygons, considering there are 66 of them that get 'capped', and you have 32 thrusters total.

[Raptor]

Either way, both ships work flawlessly now.  Thanks VA

Almost.  I have a set of old glow masp for the Hera.  Standard style of pure black except where I want glows (ie lights)

With glowmapping set to 'on' those maps vanish again.  Only those maps without glow maps are visible.  Still shootable.

That might have caused the invisible ship thing from before...

And I realised I need to use a Faceted build of PCS.  The smoothing on the two of them is not good

Got a version that handles that VA?

Would renaming the ibx and pof files to the exact same name also cause it to 'hang'?  (thinking drop the 'x' from 'basestarx'...)

[Colonol Dekker]

Why is all your writing Blue?
Is this a gimmick, that anyone can get in on?

[Vasudan Admiral]

It probably would cause it to rebuild the IBX, but it's still just a 2 minute wait. Give it a try, but if it doesn't work, just do something else for 2 mins.

There's a link to the autofacet build in the wiki entry: http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/POF_Constructor_Suite

As for the glowmaps, what format are they? DDS - (dxt1 no alpha)? And can you actually see the glows he maps are supposed to create, or do those areas of hull just become as transparent as in your first screenie?

[Raptor]

As for the glowmaps, what format are they? DDS - (dxt1 no alpha)? And can you actually see the glows he maps are supposed to create, or do those areas of hull just become as transparent as in your first screenie?

They are DDS (made before computer upgrade), but I can say exact format...

Back then the pop-up for saving as DDS was a lot smaller, and it was so long ago now I can't recall what I set them too.

And no, can't see the glows at all.

[Vasudan Admiral]

Hmm, could you attach one (or all if they fit) to HLPs file uploady thing? (in additional options during a reply) Cos it sounds like whatever the problem is, it has something to do with the map files themselves.

[Raptor]

Attached , See rar.  I'll be making some new ones anyway(the maps in question are for an older version of the Hera's maps)

Say, is there a way to have a ship split vertically when it dies?  (thinking about Base Stars dieing, and how cool it would look if the two disks split apart instead of the normal death routine)

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Colonol Dekker]

Add a split in the pof.........See Karajormas F A Q.......

[Vasudan Admiral]

Do the split subsystems even _have_ an effect in-game? I've never been able to achieve any noticable difference with them.

Anyways - yeah, the glowmaps compression was your problem. It called itself '16bit-X1R5g5B5'. I just opened them both in PSP and resaved them as perfectly normal DXT1 DDS files with no alpha, and tharrrr she glows!


The lights make it look beautifully huge. Well done.

One more thing, definitely use the autofacet PCS version in the future.

[Colonol Dekker]

It wouldnt be if it didn't........ :