[Kosh]

If they had better candidates other than twiddle de dee and twiddle de dum then maybe we would have. It would not have mattered, my state would have voted for Kerry anyway.

[karajorma]

Again it doesn't matter. Go in and spoil your ballot in protest if need be. Sitting on your arse and calling it a protest vote is indistinguishable from simply sitting on your arse cause you don't care.

[Taristin]

Irrelevent. There are enough Americans eligable to vote to have not elected him even if we discard the 55m who did vote for him.

As I've said previously anyone who doesn't vote in an election as important as the last one automatically gets lumped into the stupid category.

Theres many who felt that Kerry was no better a choice. When it comes down to two horrible candidates, then what?


Spoil our vote eh? Thats useful. Real useful. Its easy to throw stones from the other side of the fence. If we vote for a third party candidate it's a waste of a vote. If we dont vote, its a waste of a vote. How does it do any good?

[karajorma]

Third party candidates are only a wasted vote because no one wants to waste their vote. It's one of the stupidities inherent in democracy. A poll published shortly before the last election over here showed that the Liberal Democrats would win 40% of the vote if the people who didn't want to waste their vote by voting for them actually voted for them instead of playing it safe.

The Lib Dems came third.

At least by spoiling your ballot papers you show people from 3rd parties that there IS a potential vote out there and maybe pursuade some of them to actually run. By not voting you do nothing at all. Actually voting for someone is better than spoiling your paper but for ****'s sake is it that hard for people to grasp the concept that you have to actually vote in order to make a protest vote?

And if you think I'm casting stones from the other side of the fence you're dead wrong. I was just as scathing of the Brits who didn't vote. Even more so in light of the above in fact.

[aldo_14]

On the subject of the last election, it's worth noting that IIRC Labour won a majority with less votes than the Tories did under John Major when losing the election.

[karajorma]

Thats cause most of the country wanted shot of the Tories and voted Labout to get rid of them. This time no one liked either party and thus didn't bother to vote.

Which sort of proves my point about why they're all idiots too because it was the perfect time to vote for a third party.

[NGTM-1R]

I think you're a little confused. The problem the third parties have here goes much deeper than that. If you've ever listened to Nader speak, for example, you know he has all the charisma of dead fish.

[Flipside]

I still think it's a pity we don't see punch-ups and massive flame-wars in the Houses of Commons any more, at least then you knew your MP was passionate about their beliefs. Screw all this 'Decorum' ****, I want to see some good old fashioned 'Flame and Fury' politics in the UK again.

Edit : That's why I love the Scottish Parliament, they're still new, and still have that Fire. You wouldn't see an English MP resisting arrest at rallies because he believed that passionately in what he was doing.

[Mefustae]

I still think it's a pity we don't see punch-ups and massive flame-wars in the Houses of Commons any more, at least then you knew your MP was passionate about their beliefs. Screw all this 'Decorum' ****, I want to see some good old fashioned 'Flame and Fury' politics in the UK again.

Australian parliament can get pretty riled up in flame-wars, more so as of late. Quite amusing when I first witnessed one erupt, as we got to see adult politicians acting like 12-year-old forum n00bs.

[karajorma]

I think you're a little confused. The problem the third parties have here goes much deeper than that. If you've ever listened to Nader speak, for example, you know he has all the charisma of dead fish.

First I was talking about a British third party. I can't imagine the Lib Dems doing a worse job than either the Conservatives or Labour so it would have been an improvement to have given both of those parties a kick in the arse and made them realise that it wasn't a two horse race.

Secondly and more generally though how many candidates do you think there are who don't run because they don't think anyone other than the Dems and Reps can get votes? Now how many of them do you think might try it if they election result had been 55m Bush, 50m Kerry, 20m spoilt ballot?

 The thing is if you don't advertise the fact that you are available as a voter no one will cater to you. You simply don't exist on the political landscape because there is no distinction between you and the lazy sod who doesn't vote cause he can't be bothered to tear himself away from the TV.

[aldo_14]

I think you're a little confused. The problem the third parties have here goes much deeper than that. If you've ever listened to Nader speak, for example, you know he has all the charisma of dead fish.

First I was talking about a British third party. I can't imagine the Lib Dems doing a worse job than either the Conservatives or Labour so it would have been an improvement to have given both of those parties a kick in the arse and made them realise that it wasn't a two horse race.

Secondly and more generally though how many candidates do you think there are who don't run because they don't think anyone other than the Dems and Reps can get votes? Now how many of them do you think might try it if they election result had been 55m Bush, 50m Kerry, 20m spoilt ballot?

Surely it's 55m Bush, 70m spoilt ballot nowadays?

[karajorma]

Not really. I think we should count those who voted Bush as being the ones who don't understand how to mark a ballot paper.

[NGTM-1R]

No, actually there's more to it then that.

Consider for a moment: politics has very little meaning to the average person's life. Much as we scream pure bloody blue murder over RFID passports, how many people actually use their passports, even HAVE passports? A minority.

The point here is that there is no real reason for people to get out and vote. They have no desire and no need. Whether the next president is a Democrat, a Republican, or from the Communist Party of America has no real bearing on their lives. They have no personal stake in things. All the damage one can do in eight years isn't much, and if you pursue too liberal or conservative agenda then your successor will almost certainly be from the other party and undo everything you did, then get blamed for not doing enough positive things for their party and it starts over.

As much as I hate to say it, voter turnout died with the abolition of machine politics. People voted then because they had a stake in things, because they felt they owed the party support: it had supported them. Not anymore. We have regressed to the day of post-Civil War politics, where nothing really mattered. All the people of intelligence, of stature, involved in public service today are in the courts. That's where the ability to make a lasting mark lies. Politicians are regarded as do-nothings and of little account. And in the end, they are for the most part.

And perhaps it's better this way. If nothing else it is indicative of there being no truly severe, far-reaching problems within the country. (Please note the within.) Otherwise people would care.

[Kosh]

And perhaps it's better this way. If nothing else it is indicative of there being no truly severe, far-reaching problems within the country. (Please note the within.) Otherwise people would care.

You are right about politics not having any bearing on people's lives, perhaps the biggest reason for this is the damn special interests both parties placate to.


But to say that this means the US is not headed for a major internal crisis. Such stagnation only leads to trouble.