[TrashMan]

According to the ani, there was a lot of mesons cramed into the Bastion and Niried. I assumed they started mass production as soon as the first sath was sighted.

What confuses me is why are there so few RBC's - compared to the meson bomb they should be far easier to manufacture (given that beam technolgoy is known and used for years and that this meson thing is new)

I would have entrenched Capella with EVERYTHING I have. Even a fleet of Saths would have ahard time getting trough. 20-30 destroyers, 50 corvettes and a odd cruiser or two + bombers + RBC's. A sath would be fried the second it pops out.

[Eishtmo]

I think the only way the Ravana could have destroyed so many ships was if the fleet was sent directly in front of it. This was insanely stupid considering the damage it could do to just 2 corvettes.

What other ships were there?  We don't know the kind of escorts the Ravana had during that battle, most of them were probably destroyed simply getting to the Ravana in the first place.

The Colossus was disabled, the captain had no choice.

It's been a while since I played the main campaign, so I have forgotten.  I still brought it up that way because some people were complaining about the fact that the Colossus did stay, and now they have the reason and should cease bringing it up.

[Goober5000]

The disabling was a last-minute hack by .  The entire mission was designed with the intention that the Colossus would be moving around.  My guess is that they only disabled it so it would stay in a predictable position to get targeted by the Sathanas.

[karajorma]

What confuses me is why are there so few RBC's - compared to the meson bomb they should be far easier to manufacture (given that beam technolgoy is known and used for years and that this meson thing is new)

Just because beams are a well known technology doesn't mean that they are cheap or easy to make.

Furthermore the Mjolnir beam was new. We've never seen anything anywhere near that powerful in a ship that size before.

[Freespace Freak]

Why do so many people want to launch flanking attacks in space? It dosen't do anything. On land, it gives you the advantage of surprise, cutting the enemy's communications, going around his entrenchments, etc., but none of that applies in space where ships can simply swivel to face a new threat in a few seconds.

Read David Weber, especially his Honor Harrington series of novels.  The fleet manuevers in his novels all use Newtonian/Einsteinian physics (except the traveling through hyperspace parts) and he really pays particular attention to accuracy and mathematical plausibility.  He can show you how flanking maneuvers can be accomplished in deep space.   

But FS2 uses atmospheric flight physics (even though you're supposedly flying though the vacuum of space) but the concept is still the same.  You can still get yourself into positions that take advantage of the weaknesses of an enemy's formation.

[Polpolion]

STEP 1 : Place multiple meson warheads around a jump node.

STEP 2: Allow the Sathanas to collide and detonate with the warheads as it exits subspace.

[Flipside]

I think that would have been logistically impossible, there was only one ship that could slow the Sathanas down, and the GTVA was hard pressed to keep up with it. In fact, I would strongly suspect that the moment the Sathanas was identified, they started moving all the remaining bombs to the Bastion in case of the need to destroy a node, that would explain why they managed to prep the Bastion so quickly when the fleet of Saths arrived.

[NGTM-1R]

That's not the description of a weapon about to be put into production. They quite clearly say that it's still under development and that they aren't certain of its yield.

It still fails to explain how they whipped up forty of them for the Neried and Bastion, too.

[Prophet]

Yeah, but we don't really know what those warheads really are and how they are made. They could be made by compressing old furniture. Or maybe its liquid. Then it would just be a matter of pumping it in to the ships tubing. It doesn't necessarily mean there are 40 warheads, but it could mean the amount of reagent is worth 40 warheads.

Suppose they could swipe unlimited amouts of mesons from their asses. I don't think they could rework those destroyers so quickly to accommodate them. They would have to strip everythin out of the destroyer. Re route ****load of wiring, pipework, and whatever. And still maintain the original structural strenght and keep the ship working. Then they would need to somehow pile up the warheads in there (assuming they are copies of the ones deployed at the knossos). In my estimation that would take months.

Conclusion: The whole "two destroyers filled with meson warhedeads" scenario is bogus. It could not be done, so why debate the origins of the warheads when the whole issue is irrelevant.
The ending is a good one and I'm not complaining. But it can't hold under closer examination. Just like the shockwave sweeping trought the system in a minute.

[karajorma]

It still fails to explain how they whipped up forty of them for the Neried and Bastion, too.

It could be that meson bombs are very simple to make but hideously expensive.

Whatever rational you want to come up with it does put pay to all those claims that the GTVA should have just used more meson bombs earlier on. In A Flaming Sword it's likely that they didn't have that many more.

[aldo_14]

where does the 40 meson bomb value come from, again?

[Blue Haired Maniac]

where does the 40 meson bomb value come from, again?

It's from the command animations that show the Orion's jampacked with Meson's.

Personally, I feel that is artistic license. There is no way you could strip out two Orion class destroyers that quickly. Considering that it only took 3 warheads to bring down the Knossos, I would say they probably put 2, maybe 3 into the fighterbays of both the Bastion and Nereid.

[aldo_14]

Can someone check that, then?  I'm curious whether it implies 40 completed meson bombs or something different - like jury rigged (but still meson bomb derivative) explosive devices sans casing, for example.

[Mefustae]

Doesn't look like the casing is included, and they look to have been installed in several specific compartments, meaning they could have been shoved into cargo- or storage-areas with a lot of open space. For instance, you can see a big cluster around where the fighers would be stored, suggesting they crammed the entire flight-deck with as many Meson Bombs as they could get in there. I would bet they simply pulled as much equiptment and bulkheads as they could in areas with a lot of space, such as primary cargo holds, leaving a good deal of room for the bombs without requiring extensive deconstruction or chancing compromising structural integrity.

Obviously, the problem as to where they got the bombs remains, but as somebody said; they might be easy to produce but just expensive as all hell. Of course, when you're facing the possibility of annihilation as a species, matters such as extinction might transcend money. Or perhaps the GTVA poured all its local industrial power  [which would be considerable given Vega seems to be a well-developed system] into creating as many bombs as possible in the lead-up to the plan, which would have been probably a few hours after 'Into the Lion's Den'.

[TrashMan]

What confuses me is why are there so few RBC's - compared to the meson bomb they should be far easier to manufacture (given that beam technolgoy is known and used for years and that this meson thing is new)

Just because beams are a well known technology doesn't mean that they are cheap or easy to make.

Furthermore the Mjolnir beam was new. We've never seen anything anywhere near that powerful in a ship that size before.

a) the Mljonir is not a ship - it's a weapon platform. No crew quaters, no storage areas, no engines, no corridors.
It's a bit smaller than a cruiser, but given the free volume, packing a bigger beam than a Leviathan could carry is more than reasonable.

And what I menat to say - it's most definately cheaper and easier to make than a meson bomb - so if they had stuffed two Orion full of those things, they could have produced more than enough RBC's by that time to make a realyl effective node blockade.

[Mefustae]

And what I menat to say - it's most definately cheaper and easier to make than a meson bomb

That's a pretty sizable assumption, right there. We don't even know how meson bombs work and you're saying that it would be both cheaper and easier to construct a considerably complicated advanced weapons platform?

[aldo_14]

What confuses me is why are there so few RBC's - compared to the meson bomb they should be far easier to manufacture (given that beam technolgoy is known and used for years and that this meson thing is new)

Just because beams are a well known technology doesn't mean that they are cheap or easy to make.

Furthermore the Mjolnir beam was new. We've never seen anything anywhere near that powerful in a ship that size before.

a) the Mljonir is not a ship - it's a weapon platform. No crew quaters, no storage areas, no engines, no corridors.
It's a bit smaller than a cruiser, but given the free volume, packing a bigger beam than a Leviathan could carry is more than reasonable.

And what I menat to say - it's most definately cheaper and easier to make than a meson bomb - so if they had stuffed two Orion full of those things, they could have produced more than enough RBC's by that time to make a realyl effective node blockade.

For your consideration; cost of patriot missile unit - US$170m.  Cost of F15 - US$30m (approx wavy handed stuff)

As another aside; historically, it's not usually cheaper to buy autonomous units (at least, not reliable ones).  That's why, shockingly, people still fly planes. 

As another, final aside; all a mesom bomb needs to be (in a primitive simplified sense) for what it's used for in FS2 is a fissile devices and a trigger - click, bank, done - losing control is a desired thing.  An RBC needs to be reusable, reliable, autonomous, and also of course requires to be able to warm up and cool down - losing control is a bad thing.  It's worth noting it's generally easier to let energy overload and explode than to control it - after all, how many weapons nowadays are based on energy (reusable, soft-state i.e. not bang-then-done), and how many on explosive action (i.e. bullets)?

Ah... one other thing.  Normally, new technology is less reliable than old technology; it would be very dangerous for the GTVA to (for example) devote their reliable fighter, cruiser, etc building materials for what are untested weapons during wartime.

[karajorma]

a) the Mljonir is not a ship - it's a weapon platform. No crew quaters, no storage areas, no engines, no corridors.
It's a bit smaller than a cruiser, but given the free volume, packing a bigger beam than a Leviathan could carry is more than reasonable.

Did I say it was unreasonable?  : The Mjolnir is new. The beams on the Mjolnir are new. Nothing else carries mjolnir beams. Your entire assumption completely ignores this fact.

And what I menat to say - it's most definately cheaper and easier to make than a meson bomb - so if they had stuffed two Orion full of those things, they could have produced more than enough RBC's by that time to make a realyl effective node blockade.

That's a ****ing big assumption you're making there on absolutely no data whatsoever.

1) Where in the game does it quote the price of either the RBC or the Meson bomb?
2) Where does it state the time taken to make either?

Seeing as it does neither I don't know how you can possibly claim that one is cheaper or easier than the other? Especially given the fact that we never see the RBC ever again yet we do see lots more meson bombs stuffed into a pair of Orions.

[Freespace Freak]

The point is we have no ****ing clue so we can't say anything one way or another about it.  Besides, mining an area isn't really that threatening, it merely slows the advance of an incoming force.  Since they can obviously see that it's mined, they simply just need to take a little time to dismantle them.  If you mine the other side, it'll be devastating for the first couple of ships that get there, but I think command wanted to completely prevent the Shivans from leaving Capella, not just hurt them once they did.

[Dan1]

Mining the area (say GD or the GD/Cap Jumpnode area) would have bought them the time they needed to implement the plan for the Nereid to blow the Vega node. (and save more lives in that last mission.)