[Dan1]

Going along with my other thread.  What do you guys think that the NTF could have done differently?  IT was obvious that Bosch didn't really care about the NTF in the end (cutscenes) but I'm sure some of the other higher ups did. 

I think that the NTF should have consolidated their gains personally.  I would have tried to capture/destroy the Colossus several times.  I am aware of a campaign out there that has a pretty nice take on how the NTF could have come out ahead.

What do you guys think?

[BurntCornMuffin]

But if you recall, in the normal campaign they said that the NTF didn't have the firepower to take out the Colly directly, so they went for it's supply convoys.  (I forget the name of the mission, but you defend one such convoy just after the Colly's first appearance).  I probably would have used that same strategy, except I would have stopped my offensive when the Saths started coming in and let the GTVA eat that, then hit them with my (now semi-rested) forces.

[Mefustae]

I would have tried to capture/destroy the Colossus several times. 

Are you bat**** insane?! You'd have to fight across several kilometres of corridors against a crew of 30,000! Not to mention God-knows-how-many automated turrets and other defensive systems it must have. It'd be like invading a small country!

[Herra Tohtori]

It's easy.

Just say "Mission Accomplished" some time after getting yout own troops inside.

[Dark Hunter]

We're assuming that none of NTF's officers knew how to FRED.

But I agree with Dan1's original premise. Perhaps not destroy the Colly, but disabling it somehow. The ship had to spend how many months drydocked to get 40% of it's armor replaced? (...if it hadn't been rushed back into service following the Capella invasion that is).

If Helios bombs can take out a Sathanas's beam guns, they can take out the Colly's. Then have an Orion or something blindside it and do some damage. The GTVA removes it to drydock, the NTF's equivalent of GTVI tracks it, infiltrates it, and blasts its reactor(s) to hell while it's being repaired. If that doesn't take it out, it'll have removed it from service for a very long time while the very expensive repairs are done.

[Taristin]

Helioses are both extremely rare and expensive. It is unlikely that they'd be about in abundance, and certainly not at the disposal of most NTF commanders. In fact, its likely they were held in armories, and dispensed as needed by GTVA command.

Not to mention that the NTF was a rag-tag fleet of rebels. It didnt have the organization that the GTVA has. There was no GTVI-like entity.

And lastly, the NTF had not even seen the Colossus until it's attack on Enif Station. From that point to the end of the NTF rebellion was hardly a month or two, was it not?

[NGTM-1R]

Thrown in the towel when the Colossus showed up rather then pulling that bat**** insane run for Gamma Drac.

[Dark Hunter]

Said "bat**** insane run" got the Iceni into GC, I might point out.

[Taristin]

Command was gonna let them there anyway >..>

[Trivial Psychic]

As NTF commander, I would have focused less effort on executing starship commanding officers.

[Mefustae]

Indeed, and considering an entire fleet set out and the only ships that got through without being let through were the Grall and... well that's about it, 'Bat**** Insane' seems as good a description of that strategy as any.

Personally, I would have had Bosch assassinated, taken command of the NTF in his stead, ended all that ****ery with ETAK and get down to business securing my territory against GTVA forces. When the Big C showed up, I would have hauled-ass back to the nothern systems and made a big-ass wall around the nodes to GTVA-held systems so any ship that comes through would be pancaked. Just weld a dozen cruisers and corvettes together or something, that should do enough damage for my destroyers to finish off whatever gets through, and perhaps even force Colossus into a retreat.

Then, I send a ship to activate the Knossos and let the GTVA play with the Shivans for a little while, before launching an offensive on their rear flank via Alpha Centauri. Shivans on one side and the NTF on the other with the Colossus in drydock getting the dents from my big-ass node-wall pounded out... the GTVA is in for a whole lot of hurt.

All in all, i'd say just do away with the ETAK wankery and you're golden. The NTF could have had half a chance of winning had it not been just a distraction for Bosch's ulterior motives.

[Blue Haired Maniac]

Obviously, Bosch didn't care about the rebellion, it was just his smoke screen and his attacks on GTVA space covered his research. But let's just say that I was in command of the NTF and was actually launching a rebellion and not trying to form an alliance with the Shivans.

#1 After gaining a foothold in Regulus, Polaris, and Sirius, consolidate my gains. Force the GTVA to attack me and root me out of those systems. Basically, defend and counterattack. You don't have the resources that the GTVA has, so you have to use them smartly and limit offensive operations.

#2 Once the GTVA Colossus comes online, avoid any direct confrontations with it. The NTF simply wouldn't have the firepower to contend with a ship of that size. Realistically, once it enters the fray, the only hope the NTF has of gaining independence is outlasting the will of the citizens of the GTVA. What I would do would scatter my forces and conduct guerilla actions against targets of opportunity, prioritizing supply convoys for the Colossus.

#3 I wouldn't attack civilian targets. In our position, we don't want civilians hating us. If anything, we want to turn them to our allies. People will always root for the underdog. But they won't if they have a reason to hate you. And blowing up civilian transports and attacking civilian installations wouldn't exactly be the way of winning the hearts and minds of the people in other systems.

[NGTM-1R]

Said "bat**** insane run" got the Iceni into GC, I might point out.

It was a death ride, though. The NTF probably lost at least a quarter of its ships just reaching Gamma Drac, forcing entry to the system probably cost them another quarter if not more. We know the NTF lost four destroyers simply getting into Gamma Draconis. That's 40,000 lives and very nearly as much combat power as the Colossus, not even counting the cruisers and corvettes lost en route or attempting to force entry. (They lost another four corvettes and at least five cruisers engaged in the same task!)

In retrospect the loyalty of the NTF's ranks and ratings is incredible. They knew, had to know, that the orders they had been given constituted a suicide run. At the very least this would destroy the NTF's ability to defend itself effectively against the GTVA while leaving the Colossus entirely out of the picture. That the rank and file knew what Bosch was up to is suspect at best, so the reasoning behind those orders would have been a total mystery to them. Even had they known, how many of them would have believed in the cause? I think Bosch was nuts for seeking an alliance with the Shivans, and I didn't grow up on stories of the Great War. Bosch was better off not telling them the reasoning. At least he'd have the benefit of the doubt then.

But amazingly, despite their nonsensical nature, despite the fact they would mean the death of the movement and its ideals, despite the fact they would likely kill most of the NTF's pilots, ranks, and ratings, the NTF's captains and crews apparently followed those orders to the letter without hesitation. If for no other reason then that, Bosch deserves the contempt of history. Rarely indeed has the loyalty of the troops been so powerful, and rarer still has it been so abused. The wages of loyal service to the NTF could hardly have been more deplorable.

[Mefustae]

*Snip*

But what have you ordered them do? With the Colossus on the offensive, NTF forces faced certain death if they tried to stay and fight, and it would only be a matter of time until they were hunted down had they chose to simply hide somewhere in their home-systems. The NTF had without a doubt already lost the war. Essentially, they were in the Berlin bunker as the Soviets approached; endgame one way or another.

The nebula represented salvation for the NTF. It was the only place they could run that wasn't under the control of the GTVA, and the interference caused by the nebula itself would have made them nigh-on impossible to locate. At that point the Ravana had just been destroyed and it was assumed that the Shivan force remaining was significantly weakened, which would have undoubtedly filtered back to the NTF and thus made the nebula all the more appealing for a hiding spot. There can be no doubt the run to Gamma Drac looked like suicide, but even one shot in a million sounds like great odds when you're looking down the barrel of a gun.

Granted, the dash was a disaster; with the Colossus in hot persuit and the GTVA blockading every single node along the way, i'm rather surprised as many ships made it to Gamma Drac as they did. But what choice did they have? Had they gone the long way around taking the Vega route to Gamma Drac, they undoubtedly would have had the Colossus and most of the 3rd Fleet waiting for them in Capella by the time they got there. There was simply no other alternative other than surrender, and it's more than likely the GTVA would have had them all imprisoned for the rest of their natural lives or just put to death as traitors. Quite frankly, if you can think of a better plan, i'd like to hear it.

[Prophet]

@Mefstae

You have a point, if the nebula had been one jump from NTF territory. It takes a hell of a lot zeal to do what the NTF fleet did. While the nebula might have seemed like a nice place to hide out at the time, then what? Suppose you get in to the nebula, and blow some straggler Shivans. You are in a middle of unknown universe. There might be a way out of the nebula. There might be a place to resupply and live somewhere out there. A fleet needs logistics. Once in the nebula, millions of lives would be hanging on the slim hope of finding a habitable planet, or abandoned Shivan agricultural station. Yeah right, slim chance.
Or maybe everyone was brainwashed, North Korea style.

And good luck to the GTVA for imprisoning everyone from at least three starsystems. GTVA would likely just pursue the most famous NTF leaders, like post WW2. There just isn't much they can do with all those NTF grunts without creating a prison planet. Had I been a fighter pilot in the NTF, I would have grabbed as much I can carry and go start my own country somewhere. Or just land on some planet and declare myself a don. Like anyone would find me when I have a whole planet to hide in. Maybe buy a bar in some out of the way mining station.

The reality is that the last action of the NTF was heavily influenced by 's desire to get some big explosions and bombing action, and to let the player do a little genocide amidst all the killing.

[NGTM-1R]

Your timing is off; the GTVA had actually resumed nebular operations at that point and knew there were more Shivans about (your stay with the 134th preceeds The King's Gambit). They were pressing forwards still  but did not have it all their own way. So the nebula is actually even less attractive then facing the Colossus, because you'd have twice the number of folks gunning for you.

Also, since as you have pointed out they were really ****ed either way, did it really matter? Either way, if they fought, they would die. They ought to have surrendered. Further resistance was futile, wasteful. What happened to the NTF was a form of organized murder, instigated by Aken Bosch, and the victims wore NTF uniforms. That so many were willing to die for a cause already lost seems improbable. We didn't hear of a single instance of an NTF ship surrendering, much less observe one. The only other force in history that displayed this kind of behavior was the Imperial Japanese Army, and it took a lot more indoctrination then the NTF had to produce it.

[PotzUK]

We didn't hear of a single instance of an NTF ship surrendering, much less observe one.

Didn't the remaining crew of the Iceni surrender in the nebula?  Shortly before it self destructed?

[Prophet]

The crew of the Trinity seemed very willing to be under GTVA custody...

[aldo_14]

The crew of the Trinity seemed very willing to be under GTVA custody...

They were in a damaged, crippled cruiser deep within Shivan held space and very far from NTF support.... who can blame them?

[Prophet]

They also had nothing to lose but their lives. But still didn't fight to the death like fanatics propably would. They also were in the exact same situation the entire NTF would later try to get in. And that fleet would likely have similar thoughts about surrender to the GTVA had tey been able to punch trought to the nebula.