Author Topic: BSG Season 3 premier.  (Read 56312 times)

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Offline Wild Fragaria

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I'm slow, too slow.  Season 3 is coming and I still haven't watched season 2.  Hmmmm...  I should plan for another BSG marathon on one of the weekends.

 

Offline Unknown Target

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I just wanna see a big space battle next episode...
And this whole "controversy" about BSG following the Iraq war is A) stupid, B) pointless, C) possibly wrong, D) possibly correct, and E) stupid.
Oops, did I repeat myself again?
Why is it that whenever a discussion becomes purely academic people decide it's pointless and stupid? We're talking about our interpretations of a show-- lay off.

Because it's not academic - people are bashing the show because they automatically assume that any and all references to an occupation is the writers trying to make a lame-ass attempt at political commentary. In fact, any debate to the contrary is swiftly and promptly pounded down, at least on all the forums I've seen so far.

Plus, I think sometimes people read too much into things, and establish meanings when in reality, there may actually be none.

 

Offline Bobboau

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did I bash, I made like one coment that I thought they were overuseing the metaphore and all of the sudden everyone is like "BLSAPHEEMAR! BERN THE BLASFEEMUR!!!!"
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
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Offline Ford Prefect

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I disagree with Bobboau on the point we were debating but I hardly thought it was a stupid argument. There are definitely parallels to the Iraq war, and I certainly agree that some of it is contemporary political commentary-- our debate was over a matter of degree. Could we try, for once, not to think in binary?
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Meh, maybe you're right. Still, it annoys me that every discussion about the new season devolves into Battlestar Iraqtica.

 

Offline Nuke

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il take battlestar iraqtica over battlestar sucktica and day :D
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Offline WMCoolmon

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There are parallels and I doubt they're entirely coincidental, but I don't think that the episode is supposed to be conveying the message that terrorism is good.
-C

 

Offline Rictor

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did I bash, I made like one comment that I thought they were overuseing the metaphore and all of the sudden everyone is like "BLSAPHEEMAR! BURN THE BLASFEEMUR!!!!"

Wow. That's just...wow. I know it pisses you off when people point it out, but I couldn't resist ;) ;)

edit: and in Bob's defense, Kevin Smith described BSG as "an allegory for the War on Terror", and I have to assume that he knows what he's talking about when it comes to film.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2006, 05:08:41 pm by Rictor »

 

Offline IceFire

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There are parallels and I doubt they're entirely coincidental, but I don't think that the episode is supposed to be conveying the message that terrorism is good.
Woa...where are people getting the "terrorism good" thing from those two episodes.  If thats the case...then I think thats not what the shows producers were talking about at all.  In my humble academic interpretation the show is all about the human condition.  What makes us fight so hard that we'd sacrifice our own lives in the name of or to save others?  Thats the question the shows producers are asking.

My personal feeling is that I think BSG is great for having producers with the balls to write an awesome story, with significant and poignant themes, without preaching what is right and wrong. Instead the show asks us to think about what is right and wrong.  Thats ballsy and I applaud their efforts.

I think they are trying to teach more of you to be critical thinkers.  It might have even worked...you guys are at least talking about it.  Thinking about the issue from all angle and sides is coming no doubt!  I have faith!
- IceFire
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"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."

  

Offline Bobboau

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you know the part in quotes and all caps was intentionaly misspelled, right?

/*wait he... sort of defended me*/

nevermind
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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edit: and in Bob's defense, Kevin Smith described BSG as "an allegory for the War on Terror", and I have to assume that he knows what he's talking about when it comes to film.
It's not a film-specific question; it's a critical question. Being a filmmaker doesn't automatically make you a master of metaphors. With that said, I do think Kevin Smith is a very bright guy.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline BlackDove

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There are parallels and I doubt they're entirely coincidental, but I don't think that the episode is supposed to be conveying the message that terrorism is good.

Yes, that would have been the point.

Having the "good" guys use tactics that are considered "bad". Puts a spin on who and why is someone good or bad.

 

Offline aldo_14

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There are parallels and I doubt they're entirely coincidental, but I don't think that the episode is supposed to be conveying the message that terrorism is good.
Woa...where are people getting the "terrorism good" thing from those two episodes.  If thats the case...then I think thats not what the shows producers were talking about at all.  In my humble academic interpretation the show is all about the human condition.  What makes us fight so hard that we'd sacrifice our own lives in the name of or to save others?  Thats the question the shows producers are asking.

My personal feeling is that I think BSG is great for having producers with the balls to write an awesome story, with significant and poignant themes, without preaching what is right and wrong. Instead the show asks us to think about what is right and wrong.  Thats ballsy and I applaud their efforts.

I think they are trying to teach more of you to be critical thinkers.  It might have even worked...you guys are at least talking about it.  Thinking about the issue from all angle and sides is coming no doubt!  I have faith!

I've not seen the eps myself, but I know from reading interviews with the writers, etc, that the intention was most definately to present both sides in the same sort of morally ambigious way as, well, the real world is, and to twist preconceptions in that regard (like having monotheistic Cylons and polytheistic Colonials).

 

Offline IceFire

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There are parallels and I doubt they're entirely coincidental, but I don't think that the episode is supposed to be conveying the message that terrorism is good.
Woa...where are people getting the "terrorism good" thing from those two episodes.  If thats the case...then I think thats not what the shows producers were talking about at all.  In my humble academic interpretation the show is all about the human condition.  What makes us fight so hard that we'd sacrifice our own lives in the name of or to save others?  Thats the question the shows producers are asking.

My personal feeling is that I think BSG is great for having producers with the balls to write an awesome story, with significant and poignant themes, without preaching what is right and wrong. Instead the show asks us to think about what is right and wrong.  Thats ballsy and I applaud their efforts.

I think they are trying to teach more of you to be critical thinkers.  It might have even worked...you guys are at least talking about it.  Thinking about the issue from all angle and sides is coming no doubt!  I have faith!

I've not seen the eps myself, but I know from reading interviews with the writers, etc, that the intention was most definately to present both sides in the same sort of morally ambigious way as, well, the real world is, and to twist preconceptions in that regard (like having monotheistic Cylons and polytheistic Colonials).
All of that I think its absolutely brilliant :)
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."

 

Offline WMCoolmon

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I got in a discussion on the BTRL forums with someone who simply could not see my equating the Colonials with Iraqi insurgents as anything more than hatred of the US. I've also found that people seem to get far more excited about that aspect of the episode than makes sense to me. Of course BSG is going to tie in with current events if it can, it makes sense from a ratings POV (many critics apparently mirrored the miniseries to 9/11, which seems like a bit farfetched to me, but I digress). And it makes sense from a viewership connection POV. If you throw something out there that's completely random, nobody will know what to do with it and it won't affect them one bit. But if you make it something that people care about, you suddenly get people interested.

EG the abortion episode was pretty clever, because they managed to pull it off without making it seem like it favored one side or the other. Of course, the brutal twist there is that Laura made the decision using Baltar's data, against her own morals. Then Baltar took Laura's internal position on the subject to publically assault her. Beautifully done, without necessarily favoring one side or the other, but either way you're forced to look at the decision from a different POV.

In the case of the New Caprica thing, it just makes sense to have the Colonials as the insurgents/resistance/whatever. If the Colonials had the definite high moral ground, it would just be good vs. evil. There would be no need for thought. The characters would have no dimension, no darker side that they needed to expose. But by throwing in the elements of Iraq from a different POV, BSG invokes the strong feelings on the subject and presents a side of it that the average American just doesn't see. Call it pessimism, cynicism, or whatever, but I feel that most people just don't do much thinking about it beyond the terrorists being "Them". "They" are out to get us. "They" don't respect our way of life. "They" are more ignorant and less rational than us. The episode turns this around and says - hey, there is another side to this. I think the reason that people don't want to equate the episode with Iraq is because in order to accept that comparison, they'd have to radically alter their opinions on who 'us' and 'they' are. They wouldn't be able to paint 'the terrorists' as quite the black-and-white enemy that makes them feel more secure about themselves. They'd rather be able to say "Well, they chose to attack us, that makes them a bad person."

I honestly don't know what RDM's motives are for portraying things the way that he did (Assuming that it was 100% his choice, of course). I can't refute the statement that he barely intended to mirror Iraq in any way, and the implication that it's all in our heads. However I do think that for something as charged as Iraq, nothing short of beating somebody on the head with the analogy (figuratively speaking) is gonna do anything. If it's subtle enough, people will just ignore it to preserve their way of thinking.

And of course I guess you could flip it around and say that the Cylons are the terrorists, this is what would happen if we let them win, but I feel that the metaphor of that is far more useful when somebody understands that it could apply to their own culture as well, because the situation is far more broad than just the current situation with Iraq, much of the stuff in BSG you could argue anywhere from a parent-child relationship to the clash of something as broad as Eastern and Western cultures.
-C

 

Offline Bobboau

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did I just see a battlestar burning up in an atmosphere?
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Bobboau

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yeah... I did...

anyway... THANK the GODS HE SHAVED!!!

now that was a good episode.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2006, 09:05:04 pm by Bobboau »
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline redmenace

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BEST EPISODE SO FAR, PERIOD.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
              -Frederic Bastiat

 

Offline Kazan

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THOSE BASTARDS!! BASTARDS!!! kaboom?!  KABOOM?! NOOOOO!
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Offline Mars

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Great... so now we just lost half our protection for humanity