Author Topic: Diversity is a weakness?  (Read 4311 times)

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Offline Goober5000

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Diversity is a weakness?
Interesting:
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/printarticle.asp?Feed=FT&Date=20061008&ID=6085419

Quote
Harvard study paints bleak picture of ethnic diversity

A bleak picture of the corrosive effects of ethnic diversity has been revealed in research by Harvard University's Robert Putnam, one of the world's most influential political scientists.

His research shows that the more diverse a community is, the less likely its inhabitants are to trust anyone – from their next-door neighbour to the mayor.

This is a contentious finding in the current climate of concern about the benefits of immigration. Professor Putnam told the Financial Times he had delayed publishing his research until he could develop proposals to compensate for the negative effects of diversity, saying it "would have been irresponsible to publish without that".

The core message of the research was that, "in the presence of diversity, we hunker down", he said. "We act like turtles. The effect of diversity is worse than had been imagined. And it's not just that we don't trust people who are not like us. In diverse communities, we don't trust people who do look like us."

Prof Putnam found trust was lowest in Los Angeles, "the most diverse human habitation in human history", but his findings also held for rural South Dakota, where "diversity means inviting Swedes to a Norwegians' picnic".

When the data were adjusted for class, income and other factors, they showed that the more people of different races lived in the same community, the greater the loss of trust. "They don't trust the local mayor, they don't trust the local paper, they don't trust other people and they don't trust institutions," said Prof Putnam. "The only thing there's more of is protest marches and TV watching."

British Home Office research has pointed in the same direction and Prof Putnam, now working with social scientists at Manchester University, said other European countries would be likely to have similar trends.

His 2000 book, Bowling Alone, on the increasing atomisation of contemporary society, made him an academic celebrity. Though some scholars questioned how well its findings applied outside the US, policymakers were impressed and he was invited to speak at Camp David, Downing Street and Buckingham Palace.

Prof Putnam stressed, however, that immigration materially benefited both the "importing" and "exporting" societies, and that trends "have been socially constructed, and can be socially reconstructed".

In an oblique criticism of Jack Straw, leader of the House of Commons, who revealed last week he prefers Muslim women not to wear a full veil, Prof Putnam said: "What we shouldn't do is to say that they [immigrants] should be more like us. We should construct a new us."

Copyright 2006 Financial Times

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
i have an idea, lets all beciome fascists :D
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Offline BlackDove

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
If you live in America, chances are you probably are one already.

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Offline Mars

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
**** the people who say diversity is a bad thing. That's just a bunch of stupid bull**** that's put there to hide institutionalized racism.

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
I don't think he's saying diversity is a bad thing-- they're just presenting the results of a sociological study. Just because diversity might cause distrust doesn't mean we should abandon it.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
They needed a study to prove that the more types of people there are the less you find yourself able to trust them?

That seems kind of elementary to me...
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Offline Thor

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
he's not saying diversity is a bad thing, he's just saying most people are so innately distrustfull of everything that isn't like them cause of hundreds of years worth of social conditioning.

Example:  You've been taught all your life that everyone should be treated equally and is really just like you.  but then you go watch the news, and some gangbangers just shot up a school yard, a terroist just blew up a housing project, the mayor of your town just fled to the bahamas with all the cash from the city's petty funds & his underaged student aide, and a doctor killed his family and shot himself.  now imagine what the effects are of hearing that every day for your entire life.  really, are you honestly going to trust people you don't know?

I personally don't think diversity is the problem.  its that people are naturally afraid of the unknown, and its a lack of understanding diversity thats the problem.  who can honestly say they know what other religious other then your own are really all about?  do you know the history of tanzenia?  how about Canada?  how about Florida?  schools do a great job of teaching that everyone should be treated with respect, but they should also be teaching more about other cultures.  which depending on where you live happens to a greater or lesser degree.  Thats the foundation of real understanding, and how real diversity can be achieved

If anything, the good ole HLP is a good example of diversity.  we come from around the world, of various backgrounds, of different ethinicities and class, sexes, ages....heck, Ford Prefect really could be an alien from somewhere near Beetlegeuse for all we really know...no offense intended dude!  and none of that matters is cause we're all here, joined in celebrating a great game. 

So why can't we all just do that and celebrate life offline?

<edit> huh, i really didn't intend to get that into it.  oh well, all that is is my own thoughts on the matter.  if yours are different...well thats cool!
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Offline Kosh

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
Diversity is only a weakness if you let your humanity get in the way
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline Nuke

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
thats why god invented nuclear warheads :D
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
I find it interesting that he found LA was the lowest on the trust scale because I question if that is anything to do with diversity. LA may be the most diverse city in the world but it's also full of people who'll stab you in the back for a chance of fame or money. There are reasons why I wouldn't trust anyone from LA further than I could throw them that wouldn't change if everyone was white :D

And ironically the same is true of all the other big cities. I'd be interested in seeing where his research relates to places which are ethically diverse but don't have reasons for distrust that aren't due to other factors like those I mentioned above or simply due to a high crime rate.
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Offline Kazan

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
thats why godOppenheimer invented nuclear warheads :D
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
You smile because i'm different, i smile because you're all the same,..........

T-Shirts can teach us all to live in harmony...... :lol:
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(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
There are reasons why I wouldn't trust anyone from LA further than I could throw them that wouldn't change if everyone was white :D

I think you've hit the nail, but kinda sideways instead of on the head. The more people there are the more difficult it is for you to keep track of them all if you want/need to, and so the less you feel like trusting them.

Not that their being diverse doesn't exacerbate the issue, but it's comparatively minor unless you run into somebody whose way of thinking is in total disconnect from your own.
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Offline Mathwiz6

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
No no no, forget diversity, my favorite was "All modern countries are weak because there is next to no genetic improvement"  :P

Didn't go across to well in class  ;7.

EDIT: Unless you count ass-kissing as improvement  :lol:

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
there is nothing wrong with diversity so long as you do not lose yourself to it
this statement:
"What we shouldn't do is to say that they [immigrants] should be more like us. We should construct a new us."
is the exact thing I am referring to here, a country, or any culture needs to have some backbone to it, it needs confidence in it's self to survive and compete with the other cultures of the world. a culture that basically has no respect for itself, is not going to be able to survive, as soon as it encounters a strong willed self confident culture it's doomed, the other culture will assert itself and take over. there is a reason why no _*NO*_ culture lacks ethnocentrism, it's a cultural immune system, without this no culture would be able to survive in the presence of another.

now this said, there is strength in diversity, a diverse culture can adapt faster and can, without effort, survive things a xenophobic introverted culture would be wiped out by in an instant. but for the love of god people, there is a happy medium, have some pride in yourself, in your nation, look at the great things your people have done and realize that it was your culture that did that not the people to the north, not the people to the south, you and your kind, something about the way you do things allowed this, and you should be hesitant to change it so radically, and opposed to adopting someone else's way of life. I mean hell if your culture is not worth following then you might as well move to somewhere that is, and if someone else moves to were you live they should try to fit in as well
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
I find it interesting that he found LA was the lowest on the trust scale because I question if that is anything to do with diversity. LA may be the most diverse city in the world but it's also full of people who'll stab you in the back for a chance of fame or money. There are reasons why I wouldn't trust anyone from LA further than I could throw them that wouldn't change if everyone was white :D

And ironically the same is true of all the other big cities. I'd be interested in seeing where his research relates to places which are ethically diverse but don't have reasons for distrust that aren't due to other factors like those I mentioned above or simply due to a high crime rate.

but the paradox of the situation is such that, what if the high crime rate and all these other factors you are referring to is at the root caused by this phenomenon of distrust? I think looking for diverse comunities that lack high crime rates and such would be cherry picking data, if you wanted to figure this out you should find culturally homogeneous communities with high crime rates and such rather than the other way around then compare them to the diverse comunities.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
Makes sense tough...

It's our natural instinct so stick with our own "kind" - or in other words, to stick in small, compact groups that are most like you.

Now I'm white and christian. I don't hate or despise anyone else in regard to skin color or religion, but I'd by lying if I told you that I wouldn't like it more that all the people in my town are more like me (white and Christian).
It's just natural.

Besides, anyone claiming that diversity doesn't have it's bad sides is an idiot. Everything has good nad bad sides.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2006, 05:45:05 pm by TrashMan »
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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
thats why god invented nuclear warheads :D

who'da thunk that Nuke would have said that?  :P

Anyway, deep down inside, we wish we could all get along, but we simply can't. Us Americans have started to persecute people from the Middle East because we think that they all might be part of Osama's Big Big Plan (whatever that is). Russians have never gotten along with Americans, the English have never gotten along with the French......and it expands to the whole world. We never trust anybody but people from our own ethnicity....

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Offline Bobboau

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
 :blah:

first of all those examples you posted might have something to do with the fact that the groups involved are/were at war.

second Americans are not persecuting mid easterners... although I will admit we are bombing them.... which does sort of damage my point....  :doubt:
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Offline Kosh

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Re: Diversity is a weakness?
Quote
second Americans are not persecuting mid easterners... although I will admit we are bombing them.... which does sort of damage my point.... 


So what about people refusing to fly with people who "look arabic"? 
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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