[aldo_14]

Why would a europe with a substantial muslim population be a bad thing, again?

[Mefustae]

Because of that age-old social equation.

Muslims  ->  '?'  ->  Trouble.

[IPAndrews]

Muslims  ->  '?'  ->  Trouble.

You stole this off South Park's Underpants Gnomes didn't you.

[Col. Fishguts]

Yeah, he did.

Step 3: Profit

On topic: While it's true that the first generation of immigrants sometimes refuses to integrate themselves in any form, they're children and grand-children don't seem to give a rats ass about their heritage.
The current generation of 15'ish old kids all want to be suburb-hiphop-gangstas. They all speak the same wannabe-slang and emulate hiphop-video behavior. Ethnic background doesn't play a role there, everybody can be a wannabe-homie, yay !

[Mefustae]

Muslims  ->  '?'  ->  Trouble.

You stole this off South Park's Underpants Gnomes didn't you.

Veeeery observant.

[Bob-san]

The answer to most problems... make birth control illegal!

[IPAndrews]

It's easy to fix his version so it works though:

Muslims -> Trouble.

[kode]

The answer to most problems... make birth control illegal!

heck no. just look at italy. *shudders*

[Sandwich]

1) Historically low birthrates. Not really, low birth rates compared to when we started recording them, certainly, but it's always interesting to see headlines reading 'Teenage pregnancies at highest for 40 years!' on the cover of a newspaper, and then hear something like this. Someone has to be wrong.

Since when did pregnancies equal birthrates in the abortion-happy countries?

[aldo_14]

1) Historically low birthrates. Not really, low birth rates compared to when we started recording them, certainly, but it's always interesting to see headlines reading 'Teenage pregnancies at highest for 40 years!' on the cover of a newspaper, and then hear something like this. Someone has to be wrong.

Since when did pregnancies equal birthrates in the abortion-happy countries?

Based upon a 1999 study, Western europe has the lowest abortion rate in the world.

EDIT; for example, the 2004 UK abortion rate is about 16.9% (of pregnancies); including a 50% rate for 15-17 year olds.  The US rate as of 2002 was 24.6 for every 100 live births.  A quick hand wavy calculation gives that as a rate of ~19.74% - higher than the UK (and reportedly rising in recent years due to rising unemployment leading to financial insecurity for pregnant women).

Israel, which has tighter abortion controls (requiring 3 people from a limited pool of those allowed to make the decision, I think, to permit the operation) as of 1995 (hard for me to find statistics on this, I'm afraid) had ahigher ratio of abortions than Scotland, Germany, Holland, Switzerland, Belgium, Iceland, and other such 'abortion happy' countries. (http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/25s3099.html)

[Flipside]

1) Historically low birthrates. Not really, low birth rates compared to when we started recording them, certainly, but it's always interesting to see headlines reading 'Teenage pregnancies at highest for 40 years!' on the cover of a newspaper, and then hear something like this. Someone has to be wrong.

Since when did pregnancies equal birthrates in the abortion-happy countries?

You know, if I started turning round and saying that America is 'War Happy' or 'Fundamental' I'd be called anti-american and would be told to learn about America before generalising, same for comments about Israel. Yet comments like 'Europe is abortion happy' don't even raise an eyebrow.

This board is REALLY starting to take the piss with it's attitude towards Europeans. And most of it is based in pure ignorance.

[Turambar]

Europe Needs to Start Having Babies

is that an order?

[aldo_14]

Europe Needs to Start Having Babies

is that an order?

It may be before too long.

[vyper]

Europe Needs to Start Having Babies

is that an order?

It may be before too long.

"We'll need an army of extra virile men scoring round the clock! I'll do my part!"

[Sandwich]

You know, if I started turning round and saying that America is 'War Happy' or 'Fundamental' I'd be called anti-american and would be told to learn about America before generalising, same for comments about Israel. Yet comments like 'Europe is abortion happy' don't even raise an eyebrow.

Wow. Just... wow.

I freely admit that the term I used isn't the nicest, most accurate, etc etc. My apologies if I offended you.

However, don't be a hypocrite. Both replies to my saying that were definable as slightly more than an "eyebrow raised", so don't pretend that my comment went unnoticed just because your claim that it went unnoticed put a more poignant touch to your response.

[aldo_14]

You know, if I started turning round and saying that America is 'War Happy' or 'Fundamental' I'd be called anti-american and would be told to learn about America before generalising, same for comments about Israel. Yet comments like 'Europe is abortion happy' don't even raise an eyebrow.

Wow. Just... wow.

I freely admit that the term I used isn't the nicest, most accurate, etc etc. My apologies if I offended you.

However, don't be a hypocrite. Both replies to my saying that were definable as slightly more than an "eyebrow raised", so don't pretend that my comment went unnoticed just because your claim that it went unnoticed put a more poignant touch to your response.

What Flipside is saying, is that normally such baseless (actually directly oppositional to the truth) stereotyping would be met with an absolute bollocking in response.

[vyper]

Yes... it's all because of abortions.

[Freespace Freak]

Kind of on a side note, I think that in 100 years or so, Americans will actually be a seperate ethnic group.  Intermarriage between all the different ethnicities here will propogate until Americans will have become their own ethnicity, part white, part black, part hispanic, part Asian, all brown.  This will cause ethnic tensions between Americans to dissappear, but new immigrants will probably be treated with even more hostility than typical today.

[Flipside]

Sorry Sandwich, I wasn't attacking you personally, it's just the general attitude towards Europe by a lot of people. If I were to distill it out it comes across as...

'Because Europe has an open mind towards homosexuality and an open mind toward abortion it must therefore be filled with women who have abortions and homosexuals.'

In part I think it is the difference in the term 'Liberal' between various countries. In Europe it mostly adds up to Education rather than Regulation, i.e., educate people about abortion and let them make up their own mind, the laws about abortion are minimal because most governments trust people to be intelligent.

Ours is a government based on Trust over Authority, that is why we get annoyed every time something like the ID cards comes up, it breaches the covenant that has existed between voter and representative since the start of Government. We don't tell people what is right or wrong in their personal lives, only when it negatively affects other people does societies opinion step in, that is why we are more accepting of homosexuality or abortion, we rely on our authorities to provide us with the facilities to educate ourselves and make our own decision, not only does it stop government interfering in personal lives, but actually lets them get on with important considerations, and when a Doctor advises you not to have an abortion, you know it is for a decent medical reason, not personal opinion.

And the fact is, it works, we have low abortion rates not because of laws and dogma, but because people aren't as stupid as most authorities like them to think that they are, as long as the information is available.

I get annoyed because, and it's not particuarly you, I'm afraid you just got the brunt of a late night and a headache, there is far too much flinging of comments about the European Union that seem to be garnered more from Fox News than from research, and just as people from other countries find it annoying when people generalise about their country or union, there's a line for Europeans too.

[Mr. Vega]

Yeah, he did.

Step 3: Profit

On topic: While it's true that the first generation of immigrants sometimes refuses to integrate themselves in any form, they're children and grand-children don't seem to give a rats ass about their heritage.
The current generation of 15'ish old kids all want to be suburb-hiphop-gangstas. They all speak the same wannabe-slang and emulate hiphop-video behavior. Ethnic background doesn't play a role there, everybody can be a wannabe-homie, yay !

Explain the Jews then.