[Colonol Dekker]

Cap Jack said, about how he gor killed a long time ago (in th efuture by Daleks) I just wanna know how A- he got back to nowadays, and B- how he got recruited by TW........

SAving that all i'm looking forward to is more Girl on Girl "Lip action" and Gwyn running in slow motion.......

Plus any cameos by doc & catherine tate 

[Edward Bradshaw]

Britich TV just cant do good SCI FI.

Are you kidding me? British TV is responsible for some great sci-fi (Dr Who being one of them).

Dr Who was a good idea and it was good back then. They didnt really have a choice but to make it the way they did, and a lot of shows looked pretty awfull at that time. But it seems to make up for lack of money they decided to make Dr Who today like a cheap badly acted B-Movie on purpose as if to remind people of how crappy the original Dr Who looked. Its just the same nonsence you get from the BBC and other UK TV stations. The one exception to this is if we look at Red Dwarf, and while that is SCI FI, and brilliant, if it was a serious show it would be a piece of crap. With TV drama we just dont get the same kind of good filmmaking compared to the US shows, but to be fair they do get it right somtimes.  Nevertheless with dramas they get it right far more often then they ever do when they try and do horror, SCI-FI or some supernatural thing.

Admittedly we don't tend to have the big-budget capabilities of Stargate, Star Trek, Firefly, BSG and so on - but I like to think that what we don't have in quantity we make up for in quality.

Its not just that. We only make like 6 or 10 episodes a year for a series, whereas the US has to make 24 just in one year! You are bound to get a few boners a year when you got to make 24 episodes a season, but when you only end up making 6 -10 mediocre episodes I just think "you pussys". And thats not even anything to do with the money. But going back to Dr Who, I once saw a BBC US co production, and btw thats the time when you get some good production going on, and I seem to remmeber Dr Who looking brilliant. Im sure it wasnt perfect, I cant remember alll that much of it, but I distinctly remember it NOT looking like a corny and contrived B-Movie. And to those of you that think Im just a special effects whore, its NOT just the special effects its the bad scripts and acting too. I think the Dr Who deserves more than that, but instead of making Dr Who better its like they actually went out of their way to make it like that!  And do you remember Invasion Earth?  What a piece of crap that was. Big budget (at least for the BBC) only about 6-7 episodes, hyped to death, and they STILL managed to screw it up. Why do I say British TV doesnt do good SCI FI? Well, aside from 30 years ago, theres no examples of anything good.  Although I suppose I should give the BBC points for trying, I cant think of any other big TV station thats even attempted to do it.

Ed

[Edward Bradshaw]

Britich TV just cant do good SCI FI.

We can, however, spell 'British' and use capitals correctly.  And in the end, isn't that what really matters?

I am we, and it was a typo. Since I AM Britichsh, Im allowed to.

[Colonol Dekker]

End of the day, the Beeb own it, they can make it how they choose

It was a typo. Im Britchsts. Im allowed.

You be britchest, but anyone wearing britches better look out

[Edward Bradshaw]

End of the day, the Beeb own it, they can make it how they choose

True. I wasnt advocating anyone picket outside their offices  I just said I didnt like it and I'll continue to watch US shows while BBC scifi dramas go down the toilet.

You be britchest, but anyone wearing britches better look out

I r the Britchest, you dig me?

[Colonol Dekker]

End of the day, the Beeb own it, they can make it how they choose

True. I wasnt advocating anyone picket outside their offices  I just said I didnt like it.

Ffair enough

You be britchest, but anyone wearing britches better look out

I r the Britchest, you dig me?
[/quote]

Erk, too much TW makes you Bi................*runs for the hills*
j/k

[starbug]

British TV cannot do good special effects, they do, however, do good sci-fi.

I have to disagree with that, watch Dr who series 2 episode 2 tooth and claw and look a the werewolf in that episode, which is in my opinion better than some werewolfs i've seen in films.

[Edward Bradshaw]

British TV cannot do good special effects, they do, however, do good sci-fi.

I have to disagree with that, watch Dr who series 2 episode 2 tooth and claw and look a the werewolf in that episode, which is in my opinion better than some werewolfs i've seen in films.

Do you have a clip or image? Doesnt matter though, many werewolfs in films sucked.  And everything else Ive seen in the new Dr Who looks at least as bad as Lexx ever did at its worst, and thats being kind.

You know the thing about the special effects is they dont even try to hide just how crappy and cheap it all is. They embrace it, as if they said "well if its going to look bad we might as well go all out". If you look at the first season of X-Files they had quite a low budget and you couldlnt always tell because they always went by the philosophy of less is more. While this is usually a good thing to think about even with a huge budget, it has a very practical benefits when you dont. While X-Files used smart lighting techniques (and good scripts I might add) and gained a creepy atmosphere for it, Dr Who just throws their crappy effects in your face without bothering to try and cover it up. Then they surround it by a contrived and corny storyline and script along with cheesy acting like they actually wanted it to look that way. There are several obviously cheapish effects shots in season 1, and to a lesser extent season 2, of x-files, but they always used their budget to the best they could make it. Imagine X-Files had been produced by Dr Who and Torchwoods producers. I'd bet even if they had the same money it would look just like Torchwood does.

But like I said, complaining about the special effects is just one aspect. Acting and writing are both dreadfull too. The only reason I can see for the new Dr Who is being as apparently popular in the US is becuase it has the Dr Who name, and Torchwood the same. Torchwood seems to look just as dire as Dr Who but at least Dr Who has some kind of excuse for being the way it is, but Torchwood? If that were produced exactly the same way in America you'd either find it on some obscure cable network where it may have gathered a few loyal fans. If it were made on ABC it would be laughed off the air. The only reason I can see these shows can do so well with such terrible writing, direction, acting and special effects, other than having the Dr Who label attached to it, is that its so rare that Briton ever produces any SCI FI. In other words, its a novelty.

Ed

[Fineus]

You'll have to forgive me if I don't read all of what you said, but I think the jist of it is that I'll agree to disagree - I rather like our sci-fi efforts but respect that you don't

That said, Lexx is ****ing spectacular. It might have some patchy effects (and that's being generous) but come on... it's just fabulous. And I'm not just saying that for the nekkid chick parts.

[Bobboau]

I liked lexx, for the same reason as who, it has as part of it's style, big bold honk'en aliens, it's sort of the same sort of thing why people are now using styles from the 60s and 70s which while tacky looking have a certain nostalgic charm.

[Edward Bradshaw]

That said, Lexx is ****ing spectacular. It might have some patchy effects (and that's being generous) but come on... it's just fabulous. And I'm not just saying that for the nekkid chick parts.

I liked Lexx too, but for the kind of dark humour and comedy aspects of it. Part of its charm were the sometimes silly special FX. Once again though, its not meant to be a serious drama. On the other hand this is where I said the new Dr Who may have some excuse being the way it is, but Torchwood definitely does not. But then a lot of the time Ive watched Dr Who and I can tell its meant to be a serious moment but its just done in such a awfull way I wonder what went though their minds. And also, Lexx isnt supposed to be the best the US can produce, and if Torchwood and Dr Who werent the only and best examples of SCIFI from the BBC around today, it probably wouldnt annoy me so much.

[Fineus]

Mmm, fair enough.

I have to admit I don't quite know what to make of Torchwood yet. It has a very Angel/Dark Angel sort of feel to it - though I wasn't paying much attention to the episode so perhaps I'm wrong about that.

As for Dr. Who... I think it's supposed to have a sort of stupid humor to it. Star Trek TNG has jokes which are very forced whereas Dr Who has moments where they just seem to go that little bit silly. I think I love it for that... it'll go between "end of the world" type seriousness and silly without even skipping a beat. Case in point being the last episode of the last series where the Doctor wanders into the room of Daleks and starts joking about only having his screwdriver handy as a weapon. Even surrounded by his nemesis and arguably the most dangerous alien in the Who universe, they're still joking around.

Red Dwarf is unashamedly "b movie"-esque. It has a crappy budget and it flaunts it. But it's not pure sci-fi if you ask me... it's more of a sketch show in a sci-fi setting.

[IceFire]

I haven't seen much previous Dr. Who but I've been watching the new episodes on CBC and its a great show to watch.  Its got allot of unique style and character that some other shows don't have.  The SFX might look bad if it weren't for the shows style which I think captures the whole thing and rolls it up.

I mean...look at the opening credits...technicolour light show and a modernized version of the old Dr Who theme.  That just has so much character to me.  I really like the show. Its not in the same vein of scifi as something as serious as X-Files or Battlestar Galactica and its a fair bit sillier than StarGate but I think its great on its own for its own merits.

[aldo_14]

What defines the nationality of science fiction, anyways?

Oh, and anyone here remember Ultraviolet from Channel 4 in '98?  That was positively the best thing since, er, ever.  Plus it's worth noting the role of British sci-fi in the history of the genre isn't exactly an insignificant one.  For all Blakes 7' ropey sets et al, it's narrative structure is still cited as one of the major influences on everything from Babylon 5 to DS9 to the new BSG.

Oh, you could arguably include Life on Mars as sci-fi; a series which is utterly superbly acted, written, and produced (and closer to 'the best sci-fi the BBC can produce' in my mind).

[Colonol Dekker]

Was that the "documentary" thing, like walking with dinosaurs 'cept it showed a mission t mars? wwhere one died and got space buried in saturns rings?

[Wobble73]

Was that the "documentary" thing, like walking with dinosaurs 'cept it showed a mission t mars? wwhere one died and got space buried in saturns rings?

Or does he mean the show where the guy gets sent back to 1973 to solve crimes?

[Colonol Dekker]

Oh that crazy coma crap, does anyone know the thing i mentioned?

[karajorma]

Life on Mars is basically a 70's cop show with a twist. The main character may or may not be in a coma dreaming it all. It's absolutely brilliant too. It sounds like a crazy idea but it actually works very well.

I agree with you about Ultraviolet too Aldo. Probably the best modern take on the vampire myth in absolutely ages and on top of that it did leave you wondering at the end who were the good guys.

Oh that crazy coma crap, does anyone know the thing i mentioned?

Yep. I remember that. Wasn't too bad but it was much more documentary than sci-fi show.

[Colonol Dekker]

I enjoyed it, Sam Neils bbc thing was great too, Still.......American sci-fi stories always fall into the same brackets plot-wise, Like stargate or star trek.

bbc has "some" variety.

[Wobble73]

Show's like Walking with Dinosaurs and the like show that the UK can do great SFX though they hardly ever seem to do them great Sci Fi shows.