Poll

The TSJ Icanus, the Terran Superjuggernaut. Am I the only one who thinks that having the Earth Alliance build a ridiculously big superjuggernaut is unrealistic? What do you think?

The Icanus rocks, it shouldn't be touched at all.
9 (52.9%)
Keep it the same, but make the Punisher a bit weaker, so the Gigas has a chance of winning.
2 (11.8%)
Tone it down, make it a little smaller , give it a few less hitpoints and make the armament a little less powerful.
1 (5.9%)
Make the Punisher's damage a little less insane and make the Icanus smaller, less protected and armed.
1 (5.9%)
Get rid of it and make up a better way to kill the Gigas.
3 (17.6%)
Keep it the same, but make it only 50% operational by the time the Gigas arrives.
1 (5.9%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: November 06, 2006, 12:14:09 pm

Author Topic: Icanus  (Read 52611 times)

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Quote
The Icanus is waayyyyy to powerful.

As a very enlightened forumite on Spartan's "Killing the Gargant" thread stated: "When it comes to the Shivans, you don't think overkill, or even mega-overkill. You think Giga-overkill."
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" -DEATH, Discworld

"You can fight like a krogan, run like a leopard, but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard!"

  

Offline Snail

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The Icanus is waayyyyy to powerful.
I can make it less powerful than the fenris if you like...

But then that would make *certain* missions impossible. I think, that it should be about as powerful as if it faces the Gigas on its own, it would die, but if the Gigas' cannons are destroyed it is able to blow it up with 5-10 hits of the USilv. That would still make it mega-overkill, but at least not giga overkill. I also think it should be a bit smaller, I mean, its [english accent]positively and utterly massive![english accent]

At last it's not as big as the Gigas itself...

 

Offline Woomeister

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At last it's not as big as the Gigas itself...
Uh how would you know this exactly? You haven't even seen the Gigas yet. True the Icanus is a bit longer, but for overall mass there's quite a difference between the two.

 

Offline Snail

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*at least, typo...

Oh, and BTW, did you get the PM I sent you with the grammar errors? Just checking. :)

 

Offline Woomeister

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Well my point still stands :p

Yeah I did.

 

Offline KappaWing

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Anything larger than the colossus is unrealistic for the EA to build IMO.  :doubt:
"Your efforts to interdict me have failed, papacy. Pentagon, engage propaganda drive."
"Now, Protestant scum, you will see the power of this fully armed and operational Papal Station!"

 

Offline Snail

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Offline Woomeister

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Well the Colossus couldn't defeat a wet paper bag never mind a Gigas :p :D

 

Offline KappaWing

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I never said it couldent be better desinged. Cap ships these days are far too big and their turrets are far apart. This acutally leaves them more vulnerable to fighters/bombers. The Icanus should be smaller than the colossus, but have more turret density and be better designed.

That said, there should be some other way to kill the Gigas. Something that doesent run parallel to the FS2 storyline IMO.
"Your efforts to interdict me have failed, papacy. Pentagon, engage propaganda drive."
"Now, Protestant scum, you will see the power of this fully armed and operational Papal Station!"

 

Offline Snail

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I was thinking of ways to kill the Gargant, but it could be easily applied to the Gigas. Somesort of subspace disturbance that could suck in the Gigas. But it's your choice and right now it would be impossible to do that anyway. Besides the Icanus looks cool, it's a great design but it's not realistic, IMO.

 
Oddly enough, a friend of mine commented, upon seeing the destroyer-sized vessels in FS2, that they weren't nearly big enough to be considered "Destroyers". In his opinion, a vessel would have to be at least the size of the Collossus to be considered a destroyer, while the Icanus he thought wasn't oversized in the slightest.

...

I wonder just what sci-fi books he was reading to come up with that analysis...
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" -DEATH, Discworld

"You can fight like a krogan, run like a leopard, but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard!"

 

Offline Darius

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It was that very mystery of resources/time which led me to write a possible scenario in my fanfic.

One can't question the existence of the Icanus, since it's already there in the modpack, but it might be fun to come up with ways in which it was created.

The scenario: The EA government is a conservative, power-hungry but practical military dictatorship recently out of a civil war. Enter project proposal for a 20km long behemoth to serve as flagship. The EA sees more potential as a mobile planet-killer to zap current rebels and serve as a possible hammer over the heads of future dissenters. "Listen up all of you EA-haters: we'll blow your planet up!"

Question of resources: What's the sacrifice of most of a planet and its inhabitants compared to future lasting Terran stability and peace? Are the gains going to exceed the cost? The EA must have thought so.

On a military viewpoint, I don't see the point of the Icanus either. I see it more as a psychological tool, and I hope it gets used as something of that nature, rather than as a deus ex machina for Shivan invasions.

 

Offline Snail

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The scenario: The EA government is a conservative, power-hungry but practical military dictatorship recently out of a civil war. Enter project proposal for a 20km long behemoth to serve as flagship. The EA sees more potential as a mobile planet-killer to zap current rebels and serve as a possible hammer over the heads of future dissenters. "Listen up all of you EA-haters: we'll blow your planet up!"

That sounds pretty naive to me. Blowing up planets isn't going to place trust inside the people of Sol. More likely it would cause fear and hate. It's just like a quote from Star Wars: "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers." Except there's only one star system and the people in it, of course. But there's a cooler quote, "Rule by the fear of force rather than the force itself."

 

Offline Darius

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"Rule by the fear of force rather than the force itself."

That is a good quote. And it does make sense for the EA to rule by fear rather than by military force. Even the threat of using the Icanus should be enough to avoid dissent.

(Although, thinking about it again, it doesn't really explain why they'd invest in a superjuggernaut when the Nemesis could do that just fine)

 

Offline Snail

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Love that quote. I may even put it in my siggy, but I like Colonol Dekker's "Directives are cool, they're like HUD post-it notes". ;)

 

Offline Darius

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The scenario: The EA government is a conservative, power-hungry but practical military dictatorship recently out of a civil war. Enter project proposal for a 20km long behemoth to serve as flagship. The EA sees more potential as a mobile planet-killer to zap current rebels and serve as a possible hammer over the heads of future dissenters. "Listen up all of you EA-haters: we'll blow your planet up!"

Small addition which I forgot to take into account in the fiction: The Shivans are waiting right around the corner with an array of terrifying weapons. The Icanus could be our Last, Best Hope™ for victory.

Doesn't sound like the EA does it? Maybe they got the idea from the Project director when he was trying to pitch it to them.

 

Offline asyikarea51

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Oddly enough, a friend of mine commented, upon seeing the destroyer-sized vessels in FS2, that they weren't nearly big enough to be considered "Destroyers". In his opinion, a vessel would have to be at least the size of the Collossus to be considered a destroyer, while the Icanus he thought wasn't oversized in the slightest.

...

I wonder just what sci-fi books he was reading to come up with that analysis...

Jap animation? :lol: Or maybe his logic comes from the word "Destroyer" itself... :confused:

 

Offline Mefustae

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The Icanus is simply a demonstration of the Tarkin Doctrine: rather than expend massive amounts of resources enforcing the peace person to person, simply construct massive displays of force that can be used to discourage and thereby prevent any opposition. The Icanus was designed not as a viable tactical unit, but as a political weapon to discourage enemies of the EA while at the same time instilling patriotism within the hearts and minds of all members of the Alliance. Not unlike the Death Star, the Icanus is "cold, efficient, and promotes an understanding of fear, proving to be more powerful than military power alone".

The Nemesis was an extension of this, but more geared towards creating a vessel that serves both masters; political suppression/propaganda and an effective tactical unit. In constructing the Icanus, the EA simply moved the counter further towards the political side of the spectrum.

Now, we don't know how dedicated construction was for the Icanus, but it's not inconvievable that an apparently rich, prosperous system with a well-established industrial base could build such a vessel in the alloted time period. Granted, the civil war could effect that, but the repressive and Soviet-esque style of the EA means they would have no qualms about diverting resources from civil projects and the like to help in constructing the behemoth. Obviously there can be no comparison to the GTVA here. The vast differences in government, population and ethos alone render any direct comparisons moot, and given the vague nature of the general storyline, one can't make snap decisions 'just because'.

Indeed, not only is it possible that the Icanus could be build by the EA in the time specified, but I would even go so far as to expect the Alliance to attempt such an undertaking.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2006, 04:18:02 am by Mefustae »

 

Offline Snail

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Perhaps some of this could be integrated into the Icanus' tech description? That'd probably make it cooler rather than saying "It's got a big gun and it stopped to Gigas." Say that the EA originally wanted it to instill fear rather than actually using it, it was created by massive redirection of manpower, etc. etc. That would probably sound more interesting, and (maybe) more believable.

 

Offline Woomeister

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Say that the EA originally wanted it to instill fear rather than actually using it
No, as your making assumptions based off SAH