Author Topic: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!  (Read 4883 times)

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Offline Rictor

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Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
http://sev.prnewswire.com/government/20061031/NYM22430102006-1.html

Quote
TORONTO, Oct. 30 /PRNewswire/ -- A former political adviser to Saddam Hussein's son said today that Saddam was willing to yield to all American demands before the U.S. invasion of Iraq -- but that the Bush administration refused his offers.

The disclosure was made by Hossam Shaltout, a Canadian aerospace engineer, former American pilot, and founder of the peace organization Rights and Freedom International (http://www.rightsandfreedom.com/), who said that war could have been averted, but Bush aides blocked his efforts to announce Saddam's decision.

"Saddam was willing to yield to all American demands, announced and unannounced, to reach peaceful resolution," said Shaltout, "but the Bush administration, including Elizabeth Cheney, undersecretary of State, David Welch, the U.S. ambassador in Egypt, and Gene Cretz, his political attache, did not respond to his offers."

Now clearly this has a very high probability of being a political ploy, especially since the source is a former advisor to Saddam's sons, but if there is even a grain of truth to this it makes the US look even more evil tha it already does. So not only did they lie about their being no WMD, use 9/11 to establish a non-existant link to Iraq but on the eve of a war that was to claim hundreds of thousand of lives Saddam apparently capitulated and no one gave a damn.

Double-you tea eff?!

 

Offline Kosh

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
I wouldn't be surprised if it was true; the US wanted war with Iraq, period.
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Offline Deepblue

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
Yeah, I don't think so.

 

Offline BlackDove

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
Same thing happened to Japan. When they knew the bomb was coming, they wanted to surrender, of course. But the bomb needed a live testing stage on humans and general urban environment so they dropped two, to establish scientific certainties.

This was just a smaller scale colonial move. After all, Saddam was the US' puppet for many years, if not all of them.

 

Offline Deepblue

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
Yeah, that's also an unproven view. I actually wrote a paper about that.

 

Offline Prophet

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
@BlackDove: Db is right. That's not how the story goes.

@Rictor: If it would turn out to be true, I wouldn't be that surprised. But somehow that just sounds too good to be true. I'll wait some more gossip about this before I start believing in it.
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Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
My country makes me

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Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
Actually, it won't matter much if it's actually true or not.


In terms of logic:

A proposition P is made. It has "historical boolean" value, which means that it either happened or didn't happen. Proposition P makes government G and one or more of their actions (G1, G2, ... GN) look bad and wrong.

Person A likes government G. He is not happy about what proposition P means, so he doesn't want to believe it. And guess what, he or she doesn't believe it until someone can prove without smallest doubt that its historical boolean really is "true", and even then it's possible that he or she will simply rationalize the government G's actions with some kind of illogicism that so much appeal to so many people.

Person B hates government G, and especially one of governments actions. So he or she is eager to accept the proposition P as "true", much regardless of it's actual, historical boolean value. So, he or she readily believes the proposition.

Person C is a rational being and doesn't "believe" in things, but rather only accepts proven facts as truth. This kind of people are nonexistant, obviously.


So, regardless of historical boolean value, this kind of news will have the following effect even before it's confirmed to be either true or false:

-people who want to believe it, will believe it to some degree
-people who don't want to believe it will deny it to some degree.


The degree of acceptance or denial varies from person to another, depending on their ability to think rationally and the strength of emotion that the matter invokes in them.

If the thing is found out to be historically true or false and proof of it is presented to everyone, there will still be few hardcore non-believers who will believe what they want. These people are the conspiracy theorists. Eventually, the historical truth will be the most common view, but until unambiguous proof is given on behalf or against the proposition, people will believe what they want to be.


Considering that there will be congressional elections in two days, I wouldn't be surprized if this news was released to further make the elections a question of Iraq war and stir the waters even more... It may not even be democrats' doings at all, it may be true or false and released by someone independend of both parties. What is certain is that if this kind of news spreads widely, it will in short notice strengthen the views of those who have a lot of "Person B" in them.


I myself would say that I consist some 60-80% of "Person C" and the rest in this matter would be "Person B". Which means that I am suspicious of this kind of news, but I wouldn't be too surprized if it proved to be true in the end.

I'll keep an eye on this, but most likely there won't be any trustworthy news about the subject until the elections are over and the results defined.
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
yeah, don't trust any shocking turn of events even remotely related to US politics for the next few days.
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Offline vyper

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
This isn't anything new, I do recall something about this way back - can't find details though.  It wouldn't surprise me - especially given the way Iraq supports the US economy.

What am I talking about? Well I mean the fact that the defence industry has had a huge boom since 9/11, and that ammo and equipment had to go somewhere lest it's value drop and the defence contractors get shafted. Queue large war to get rid of said weapons and equipment.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you a war economy. And we all know how those end...
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Offline Kazan

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
I wouldn't be surprised if it was true; the USBush wanted war with Iraq, period. He even lied to america to get it

fixed
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Offline Kazan

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
Yeah, that's also an unproven view. I actually wrote a paper about that.



yeah.. it's not like we gave him those chemical weapons that he gassed his own people with or anything...

oh wait... we did
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Offline vyper

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
I think DB meant the Japs.
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Offline an0n

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
Hussein almost certainly did offer a peaceful resolution, but he'd've just waited like a month, then started giving them **** again.

And in that month he'd be fortifying his military positions.

Personally, I think he'd've pretty much caved on most of the **** they were demanding, then stalled on the rest. But the US just got sick of ****ing around with him and wanted his oil.
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
Kaz, he was talking about the "the Japanese wanted to surrender, but we wouldn't let them until we dropped a few bombs on them first, because we wanted to see how well it worked" thing.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
Hussein almost certainly did offer a peaceful resolution, but he'd've just waited like a month, then started giving them **** again.

And in that month he'd be fortifying his military positions.

Personally, I think he'd've pretty much caved on most of the **** they were demanding, then stalled on the rest. But the US just got sick of ****ing around with him and wanted his oil.

Part of the conditions Rictor refers to were that Saddam and his family abdicate power and leave Iraq.

 

Offline Rictor

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
I wouldn't be surprised if it was true; the USBush wanted war with Iraq, period. He even lied to america to get it
fixed


296-133 in favour of war. Sorry Kazan, but the American people (via their elected deputies) made it clear that theywanted the war.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
and it was like 70% in favor at the time.
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Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
I wouldn't be surprised if it was true; the USBush wanted war with Iraq, period. He even lied to america to get it
fixed


296-133 in favour of war. Sorry Kazan, but the American people (via their elected deputies) made it clear that theywanted the war.

I don't think so. Aforementioned elected deputies can vote any way they choose, even if it goes against what every single one of their constituency wants.
-C

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: Saddam accepted pre-invasion conditions? Say what?!
but that wasn't the case here thought was it?
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together