Author Topic: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.  (Read 15349 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4507568.stm

Quote
SUNDAY 5 NOVEMBER

Summary: Saddam Hussein is found guilty of crimes against humanity for the killing of 148 Shias in Tigris river city of Dujail in 1982.

He is sentenced to death by hanging.


Now that is indeed a humane way to end someone's life. :wtf:

Is hanging an acceptable way to execute a human being nowadays?

I personally tend to view death sentence "less bad" than simply putting a person into jail for remainder of his or her life. Arguably, death itself lasts a short time, and everyone dies eventually anyway... so spending 20 years in prison would be more tormenting to me at least than death.

Discuss.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
    Just MODerately cool
    And MODest too
  • 213
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
Is hanging an acceptable way to execute a human being nowadays?

yeah.
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Flipside

  • əp!sd!l£
  • 212
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
'Live on Fox!'...

I can see it now:/

 

Offline Prophet

  • 210
  • The know-it-all
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
You know Flip, I wouldn't be surprised. Disgusted perhaps, but not surprised.

Bush propably declares the hanging day as national holiday, or something...
I'm not saying anything. I did not say anything then and I'm not saying anything now. -Dukath
I am not breaking radio silence just cos' you lot got spooked by a dead flying ****ing cow. -Sergeant Harry Wells/Dog Soldiers


Prophet is walking in the deep dark places of the earth...

 

Offline kode

  • The Swedish Chef
  • 28
  • The Swede
    • http://theswe.de
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
Is hanging an acceptable way to execute a human being nowadays?

No.
Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.
- Ambrose Bierce
<Redfang> You're almost like Stryke 9 or an0n
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
- Aldous Huxley
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

  

Offline Mefustae

  • 210
  • Chevron locked...
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
Wait, Saddam was found guilty?! My... my God, I just didn't see it coming. It's unbelievable!! My flabber is thoroughly gasted!

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
It might be that my double sarcasm detector is not functioning at Sundays, but the point is not whether or not he is guilty of atrocities (he is).

The point is to

A. discuss if hanging as a method of killing a person is acceptable

B. argue whether or not ending Saddam's life "manually" has any point whatsoever.


At A I would say that utilizing hanging as method of capital punishment is not what I would expect from a "democratic, free country". But perhaps the change from the days of Evil has not yet had time to remove barbarous punishments from Iraqi legislation. Despite the fact that I would see that kind of things rather a primary concern in liberation process. Oh well.


On B I usually argue this:

-Saddam is a human being.

-Human beings inevitably die.

-Conclusion: Saddam will die even without help.


The contents of the hypothetical afterlife can not be known... I don't know whether or not Saddam will go to hell or get to heaven, but I'd say  when he dies doesn't matter to where he goes. On the other hand, if there is no afterlife, dying itself doesn't take that long after all, and thus it would be a release.

More effective punishment would be if he was kept alive, but forbidden to live. Cover basic needs - let him sleep, eat and be, but that's it. Make him live as long as possible. Arguably, the contents of the afterlife will not remarkably change during the years of life he would have left.


I think forcing to stay alive, yet forbidding life would be much more badass a punishment than simple death sentence...
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline Mefustae

  • 210
  • Chevron locked...
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
I was merely commenting on the fact that they might as well have skipped the trial, because there was no way in hell that Saddam was going to get anything less than death.

Regarding his sentence, it would arguably be better to keep him alive to aid in any investigation behind the invasion such as the [albeit questionable] allegations raised in another thread. He could give a unique perspective as to the actions of the government just prior to and during the invasion, and is thus far more valuable alive than dead. Indeed, killing Saddam now will only serve to exacerbate violence by pro-Saddam elements in- and outside of Iraq, and while some may argue that it will provide a morale boost to 'friendlies' and vice versa to 'hostiles', the effect will undoubtedly be negligible considering the current conditions within the troubled nation.

My own opinion on the subject, for those few [read: none] who want to read it, is that this is surprisingly ironic given that he is being killed for ordering the murder of 148 people, while the American leadership is lauded for ordering the deaths of hundreds of thousands [though indirectly]. It troubles me that most simply dismiss the fact without a second thought.

Finally, let's just leave the notion of an 'afterlife' out of this discussion, as we don't want this to become a debate on that particular issue. While I for one enjoy metaphysical discussions on the usefulness of the death penalty when applied to the possible existance of the supernatural, this is neither the time nor the place for such a discussion.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 06:40:14 am by Mefustae »

 

Offline Tyrian

  • 29
  • Dangerous When Thinking
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
So, we are going to kill Saddam, in order to punish him for killing more people.  I have always viewed the death penalty as becoming the person you are trying to punish, in microcosm.  So by killing Saddam, no matter how evil he may be, the Iraqis are in a small fashion, becoming the person they are trying to punish. 

We should just jail him for the rest of his life.  A far more apt punishment for one as himself.  Force him to experience the conditions he foisted upon others.  The irony would be truely fitting, I think.

EDIT:  Person C here.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2006, 07:45:25 am by Tyrian »
Want to be famous?  Click here and become a playing card!!!

Bush (Verb) -- To do stupid things with confidence.

This year, both Groundhog Day and the State of the Union Address occurred during the same week.  This is an ironic juxtaposition of events--one involves a meaningless ritual in which we look to a creature of little intelligence for prognostication, while the other involves a groundhog.

Bumper stickers at my college:
"Republicans for Voldemort!"
"Frodo failed.  Bush got the Ring."

Resistance is futile!  (If < 1 ohm...)

"Any nation which sacrifices a little liberty for a little security deserves neither and loses both." -- Benjamin Franklin

Sig rising...

 
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
aw, hanging? I was expecting more of the "decapitation + dragging the decapitated body around town" thing.

...

 :nervous:

seriously though, he may be better alive, rotting in prison for the rest of his life, for the reasons that mefustae said, although it may be hard to discern at times whether he's telling the truth or making stuff up to smear his enemies.
VBB survivor (the J master) - five hundred something posts

 

Offline Turnsky

  • FOXFIRE Artisté
  • 211
  • huh?.. Who?.. hey you kids, git off me lawn!
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
i woulda preferred him being launched from a giant trebuchet, but that's just me.
   //Warning\\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
do not torment the sleep deprived artist, he may be vicious when cornered,
in case of emergency, administer caffeine to the artist,
he will become docile after that,
and less likely to stab you in the eye with a mechanical pencil
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Offline vyper

  • 210
  • The Sexy Scotsman
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
You know, this crap that Beckett is coming out with is just annoying. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6118134.stm

Now finding him guilty is one thing, but to have the UK effectively say "hey we approve of you hanging him" when we don't even support capital punishment...
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14

 

Offline Prophet

  • 210
  • The know-it-all
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
In jail you'd still have to feed and cloth him, and so on. Death sentence will get rid of him.

Does he deserve the sentence? I don't know. If he has done all the bad things US and South Park claim he has, then by all means swat the ****er. But considering the mess that is the invasion, I don't have a clue what the **** is going on. What happened before, during and after US incursion in to middle east, well let's just say I haven't yet encoutered information that I'd consider completely credible. Not that I really have interest in finding any. I'll wat a year or so, for some nice documetary on TV.

So Saddam got the death sentence. Do I approve death penalty? Yes, I reckon it's fitting for really evil men. Is Saddam an evil man? Well he's been judged by people with ****load of more information and resources than what I have. So I just have to trust them.

Suppose he wouldn't get the rope? What then? Sit the rest of his life in a windowless concrete room? Wheter that would be better than death comes down to personal prefrence. Third option would be to let him loose, but I have a feeling that wouldn't be prudent.


Saddam will be punished. His blood will be on the hands of those who judged him, or took some part in his trial. If the penalty was just, then yay and all that. If he's getting hanged for no good reason, the truth will propably come out eventually and those responsible will end up suffering.
I'm not saying anything. I did not say anything then and I'm not saying anything now. -Dukath
I am not breaking radio silence just cos' you lot got spooked by a dead flying ****ing cow. -Sergeant Harry Wells/Dog Soldiers


Prophet is walking in the deep dark places of the earth...

 

Offline vyper

  • 210
  • The Sexy Scotsman
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
You'd be amazed how desperately a human being will cling to life no matter how horrible it is, once faced with the prospect of possible death.  Especially secular individuals, and Saddam was no religious nut.

As for executing him, I've always been against the death penalty. I believe life is something special, unique and remarkable that should be treasured in all it's forms - even the darkest kind of life.

There is no argument that Saddam should be punished, and life in jail would be acceptable. Of course, the people who used him, gave him his power, and his chemical weapons, are walking free and living a very long and comfortable life...
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14

 

Offline karajorma

  • King Louie - Jungle VIP
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Karajorma's Freespace FAQ
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
Although I'm generally against the death penalty it's mainly on the grounds of the danger of executing the innocent due to miscarriages of justice. I couldn't care less if Saddam hangs for moral reasons because he is actually guilty. Which means that my objections become.

a) Why just him and not the westerners who helped him even though they knew he was committing crimes against humanity?
b) Will his execution cause more bloodshed than simply leaving him to rot in a cell? I tend to feel that it will.


As for the trial itself it's worth pointing out that Saddam wasn't the only person on trial for the crime. As such even though everyone knew that Saddam was guilty and would be found as such the same thing can't be said about his co-defendants. In fact one of them was a aquitted. That alone makes the trial worth it.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline übermetroid

  • Current Father Of Samus
  • 28
  • He who dares wins.
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
'Live on Fox!'...

"Do you want to know more?"
"This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."

 

Offline Polpolion

  • The sizzle, it thinks!
  • 211
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
death by snoo snoo!!!

 

Offline TopAce

  • Stalwart contributor
  • 212
  • FREDder, FSWiki editor, and tester
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
I was merely commenting on the fact that they might as well have skipped the trial, because there was no way in hell that Saddam was going to get anything less than death....

Everyone deserves due process of law. Even if he did not provide it to anyone he wanted killed.
My community contributions - Get my campaigns from here.

I already announced my retirement twice, yet here I am. If I bring up that topic again, don't believe a word.

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
I don't understand the justification of the death penalty because 'Saddam was evil', because the first thing any trial should do is make sure that the character of the victim is disregarded in trying and indeed sentencing the criminal.  And I'm not sure why the inverse is applied to what is, after all, state-sanction murder.

Personally, I can't think of a more appropriate, more fitting punishment for a dictator who spent his life in luxurious palacial compounds than to live out his days in a tiny, grey concrete cell, each day more pathetic than the last.  Not only is execution in my mind morally wrong for any criminal, in this case it's doubly wrong as it will only mythologise and martyr Saddam; it will give him one last chance to present himself as a rallying call to his loyalists, and only encourage the romanticised notion of him (to some Iraqis) as a 'good' dictator who brought the sort of stability and general security that has evapourated in Iraq.

 

Offline an0n

  • Banned again
  • 211
  • Emo Hunter
    • http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/forum
Re: Short drop and a sudden stop for Saddam Hussein.
I fail to see how killing 148 people, many of whom were probably actually involved in the assasination attempt anyways, constitutes a crime against humanity.

There's like 7 billion humans. Killing 148 of them is like Humanity getting a bit of grit in it's eye.

And, ****, I'm damn ****ing sure the 'cost effective' brigades of the various multi-nationals have put out products they knew for a fact would kill more than 148 people, figuring the cost of 148 lost law suits would be less than the profits from 250mil units sold. But you don't see them being tried for crimes against humanity.

Hell, in WW2 there were probably thousands of bomber crews who were personally responsible for the deaths of hundreds (if not thousands) of innocent civillians. But you don't see them being tried either.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com