[RazorsKiss]

Ok, as I get into this, the more I realize that I'm going to need to detail, pretty exactly, what we need to do, and what it will require.  What I'd like some help with, is determining what I will need to change, as far as files go, to accomplish each part.

Planned:

A. Ships

 1. ~25 fighters from Tachyon, playable - especially in multiplayer
  a. These fighters must have left/right reverse thrust enabled (lateral thrust, reverse thrust equal to forward thrust)
  b. Speeds/Acceleration roughly comparable to standard Tachyon gameplay
  c. Hitpoints/time to live roughly comparable to "
  d. Implemented by alpha stages, enabled for multiplayer use
  (All of this I should be able to accomplish through ships.tbl, correct?)

 2. Capital Ships
  a. 5 ship classes with one initial ship entry per class (Beta)
  b. Instances of each ship class per faction (Beta 2)
  c. Full complement of capital ships for every faction (Release candidate)
 (also ships.tbl)

 3. Bases
  a. 3 bases fully converted (Beta)
  b. All bases converted (Release)
(also ships.tbl)
 
B. Weapons

 1. 7 laser types
 2. 3 missile types
 3. 3 rocket types
 4. Railgun
 5. 4 "sapper" types (drain weapon, engine, or shield energy), remote detonator sapper
 6. 5 energy torpedoes
 7. chatter cannon (high hull damage, no shield)
 8. tractor beam
 9. EMP cannon (high shield damage, no hull)
 10. Tesla EMP missile - damages ship subsystems on hit
(weapons.tbl)

C. Multiplayer capability

 1. Server Capabilities
  a. Standard 12 for initial alpha candidate
  b. 32 by initial beta
  c. 64 by release (plan on dedicated server machine + possible SCP changes to support this)

 2. Mission types
  a. Standard deathmatch (at alpha stages)
  b. Cooperative Missions (at beta stages)
  c. Base Wars (at release candidate stages)
(Is there a guide to optimizing MP for mods, or a list of files that determine Multiplayer gameplay and options?)

D. Factions/Species/Squads
 1. Galspan/Corpers
 2. Bora/Clan/Colonists
 3. Pirates
 4. Mercenaries
 5. Ability to further customize ships by adding custom "clan" or squadron insignia to identify ships
 6. Possibility of showing/identifying squadron, as well as factional membership in-game
(Species_defs, and... what, for showing squadrons in multiplayer?)

(What will help, as far as modeling goes, is the fact that we have models for everything, including textures - although the textures ALL require remapping.  I've had to render every one of them to texture (bake them all from the original textures to a single .dds or .tga texture) that I've succeeded in making flyable thus far.  I have no reason to think anything else will be different.  However, the textures, when done this way, really suck.  They'll likely all have to be retextured at a later date, but I'm more interested in making them *work* before I make them look pretty.  At my current state of modeling/texturing knowledge, that's the best I can hope for.  At some point, we will likely revamp ALL of the ships, to differ from the Tachyon originals)   

So, what do I need to study up on?  I haven't really found a "how to make a total conversion" FAQ   Forgive the facetiousness, but it's a big project, and I was hoping to maybe learn from those who *have* worked on a total conversion (BSG and TBP come to mind...) I know I need to rewrite ships.tbl, weapons.tbl, species_defs.tbl, make new icons, shield and display images for all of the various ships, already made a mod.ini, some of the new models, etc.  I need to do all the models for like... everything.  Yes, I know it's a lot of work.   You should see the original game, though.  Doing this is cake compared to modifying the simplest things in Tachyon... that's why we're here!

A. I would like a ship list that completely replaces FS2's ships (total conversion, and all).

B. I would like to replace the FS2 weapons entirely.

C. I would like to add the bases in as static capital ships.

D. I would like to have multiple areas within the same map, that you can "jump" to, in order to have multiple combat areas reachable only by a "jump".  That way, I can implement a multi-combat-theatre Base Wars-style map.  This is in multiplayer, not singleplayer.

E. Some of the weapon types, as I've mentioned in earlier posts, have no equivalent in the FS2 universe.  Solaris torpedoes are pure energy weapons, that depend on the charging time for how much damage they deal out.  I'm willing to set them to deal full damage only, with a set rate of fire, but the original "charge determines damage" makes them a much more elegant weapon.  They are *very* slow moving, and have to almost be dropped in the path of an incoming ship to hit.  This is good, because they are instant fighter-killers, at full charge.  The sappers are projectiles - 3 affect subsystems only, with the fourth being an explosive charge that is remotely triggered by the player after they are placed.  Is there a tractor-beam weapon in FS2?

I'll update this more when I figure out more of what I'm goign to need, but that's a pretty comprehensive list thus far.  What do I need to modify, to make this as *much* of a stand-alone project as possible - and to minimize the needed download? 

[Taristin]

Good luck.

[RazorsKiss]

[RazorsKiss]

When trying to give a ship left/right thrust, should I put the entries in this area?

Code: [Select]

$Thruster:

    * Defines maneuvering thrusters. Ship may have multiple $Thrusters defined.
    * +Index:
          o Defines the index number of the manouvering thruster defined in this entry
          o Syntax: Value
    * +Used for:
          o Defines the maneuver that triggers the maneuvering thruster
          o List of maneuvers: Bank right, Bank left, Pitch up, Pitch down, Roll right, Roll left, Slide right, Slide left, Slide up, Slide down, Forward, Reverse
          o Syntax: ("Name")

Or this?

Code: [Select]

$Max Velocity:

    * Defines maximum velocities with standard energy settings on x (left/right), y (up/down), and z (forward) -axis (respectively). z -axis velocity defines the maximum forward velocity.
    * Syntax: Value, Value, Value, (meters per second) x-axis, y-axis, z-axis
          o Example: 25.0, 25.0, 87.0

Example above, from the Shivan Manticore.  Which is best to use?  I don't want the second 25.0, as that's vertical thrust, it appears, but I do want the left/right - is that doable, still, or does it require the $Thrusters, now?

[RazorsKiss]

When setting rear velocity in the entry for an additional ship to:

Code: [Select]

$Rear Velocity:

    * Defines rear velocity
    * Syntax: 20.0, (meters per second) usually zero
(for example)

When throttle is bound to either absolute, or relative, the z key (bound to "reverse thrust") does nothing but slow the ship down to 0.

What am I missing?

[Wanderer]

You probably need to set the 'lateral velocities'. But you do not need to define any thrusters at all. That is those are just for graphical effects and not required for the 'strafing' to function. You should be able to define keys for the lateral movement in the options -> control config -> ship screen in the game. Defaults are something like shift+1 and shift+3 etc.

[Backslash]

You're right, there's a lot of work, but it is possible.  Hang in there!  Your step by step approach is good.  Get the fighters into the game, then tweak their values, then make a blank multiplayer mission and you can already test things and have fun.    Then mess with the special weapons, then the more complicated large ship / base stuff later.

Shield-only and hull-only weapons are no problem at all, just look at the Maxim and the Circe and make a couple changes.  The EMP missile is basically just a Stilletto with a shockwave.  The 'sappers' are either already possible, or need a bit of clever scripting.  Might need a couple code changes but afaict not anything big, probably the type of code I can do (someday when I have more time, that is).
I don't remember the tractor beam weapon, what did it do?  Just pull the ship towards you?  This doesn't exist in FS2, so it's trickier... might still be possible with some very clever scripting, but I dunno.  (Would be pretty cool though, multiplayer especially.)

Of your second section, D., the multiple arenas thing is possible, I think.  I'm thinking something similar to what WCSaga does (very large distances), only instead of autopiloting as they do (which uses time compression), you use some clever SEXPing and/or scripting with a jump 'gate' that teleports you to the next area.

Sorry if I'm just hand-waving about the 'scripting'... so far, I barely know enough about it to have an idea what is and isn't possible.  Hope you can get some help with that... who knows, this might become a great showcase for what the scripting stuff (and scripter ) can do.

Now your later questions:
Wanderer is right, it's all in the Max Velocity.  Yeah, you don't need to have a vertical thrust, just set it to 0.  Heh, I'd forgotten that Tachyon only had horizontal.

As for the rear velocity, it looks like you're doing the right thing... note that the throttle number does not show velocities less than 0, so you may want to double-check -- you could actually be moving backwards but perhaps not notice it?  20 is pretty slow (if that's what you put), and it does take time to 'accelerate'... maybe try a higher number.  If it still doesn't work, attach your table.

While you're at it, put
$Glide:                 YES
after the $Slide decel lines in your ships.tbl ... this allows for Gliding (Alt+G by default).  It's not exactly Tachyon but it's darn close.  (This one toggles gliding on/off, whereas Tachyon was press-to-glide, iirc.)

[karajorma]

8. tractor beam

I believe that tractor beams are possible based on a comment from the VBB's trick of the week thread (Over 5 years old and it's still got ideas in it I've not seen in a released campaign! ) What did the tractor do in Tachyon? Was it for pulling ships to you or did it allow you to scavenge for things dropped by other ships?

  b. 32 by initial beta
  c. 64 by release (plan on dedicated server machine + possible SCP changes to support this)

You'll need SCP changes for both of these. Increasing the number of fighters you can have in multiplayer is something I am very interested in seeing done. It is however likely to be an absolutely massive task. If you can't find a programmer from outside the SCP to join us and make this his top priority I wouldn't bank on it getting done as the programmers we already have are very busy.

That said I do want to see it done. So I'm not saying that you should abandon all hope of ever seeing it if you can't find someone. Just that it is much less likely to be done if you can't.

(Is there a guide to optimizing MP for mods, or a list of files that determine Multiplayer gameplay and options?)

Not really. MP has largely been ignored by the mod community until very recently. I believe TBP may have had a couple of multiplayer missions but apart from that it was only when the BSG and Starfox teams began to get interested in MP that things began to look up. If you have a question feel free to ask. I'm happy to answer any questions you have as long as you'll report any multiplayer bugs you find.

5. Ability to further customize ships by adding custom "clan" or squadron insignia to identify ships
 6. Possibility of showing/identifying squadron, as well as factional membership in-game
(Species_defs, and... what, for showing squadrons in multiplayer?)

Showing insignia in multiplayer has always been possible although unlike Singleplayer it is the player who decides which insignia to use. If you can trust your players to stick to the squadrons and factions you want to you could do this now. If you want to control who gets what you'll need scripting and/or code changes.

(What will help, as far as modeling goes, is the fact that we have models for everything, including textures - although the textures ALL require remapping.  I've had to render every one of them to texture (bake them all from the original textures to a single .dds or .tga texture) that I've succeeded in making flyable thus far.  I have no reason to think anything else will be different.  However, the textures, when done this way, really suck.  They'll likely all have to be retextured at a later date, but I'm more interested in making them *work* before I make them look pretty.  At my current state of modeling/texturing knowledge, that's the best I can hope for.  At some point, we will likely revamp ALL of the ships, to differ from the Tachyon originals) 

To my mind that is exactly the right attitude to have right now. Get things working and get fans of the game playing online. You'll probably find that some of them have skills that will help you. And even if you don't attract many with ugly ships you'll at least have proved yourself to the FS2 community which means that you'll be working on a mod which has already proved it can deliver rather than just a big idea which may or may not. A word of advice though. If you have things working in the game, post pictures. We get lots of people starting TCs here but few finishing them. Every time you show more ships working in the game you'll convince more people that you will produce. 

I haven't really found a "how to make a total conversion" FAQ   Forgive the facetiousness, but it's a big project, and I was hoping to maybe learn from those who *have* worked on a total conversion (BSG and TBP come to mind...)

And you won't find one. Making a TC FAQ was very hard back in the days of retail. With FS2_Open its doubtful that anyone can be sufficiently knowledgable in all the fields needed to write such a FAQ.

What you can do is ask questions. We'll all be happy to help.

[JGZinv]

8. tractor beam


I believe that tractor beams are possible based on a comment from the VBB's trick of the week thread (Over 5 years old and it's still got ideas in it I've not seen in a released campaign! Big grin ) What did the tractor do in Tachyon? Was it for pulling ships to you or did it allow you to scavenge for things dropped by other ships?

Concerning the tractor beam, Tachyon's usage was quite limited. I've never seen anyone use it for cargo
or asteroid tossing. The only thing I can say for it is in MP some pilots have used it to slow down an opponent
and then fire a volly of rockets at them.

As to the photos of in-game ships & progress, I direct you to this thread:

http://fringespace.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=77#77

[Vengence]

Nice. Archangel was one of my favorites. And RazorKiss, I'm super busy with school but just hold on! Quarter ends next week and I'll have 6 weeks off to help you too.

[RazorsKiss]

You probably need to set the 'lateral velocities'. But you do not need to define any thrusters at all. That is those are just for graphical effects and not required for the 'strafing' to function. You should be able to define keys for the lateral movement in the options -> control config -> ship screen in the game. Defaults are something like shift+1 and shift+3 etc.

*nods* - I actually figured this out after posting it, and got it working.  Thank you

You're right, there's a lot of work, but it is possible.  Hang in there!  Your step by step approach is good.  Get the fighters into the game, then tweak their values, then make a blank multiplayer mission and you can already test things and have fun.    Then mess with the special weapons, then the more complicated large ship / base stuff later.

To my mind that is exactly the right attitude to have right now. Get things working and get fans of the game playing online. You'll probably find that some of them have skills that will help you. And even if you don't attract many with ugly ships you'll at least have proved yourself to the FS2 community which means that you'll be working on a mod which has already proved it can deliver rather than just a big idea which may or may not. A word of advice though. If you have things working in the game, post pictures. We get lots of people starting TCs here but few finishing them. Every time you show more ships working in the game you'll convince more people that you will produce. 

Thanks    Question about the multiplayer missions - where can I find a sample to look at, or a blank MP mission?

And yes, I figured we'd start with the necessary stuff - models/texturing, even if they're hard, and do as many of the simple tasks as we can, to get a "working" product out.  The more complicated stuff is going to take time, anyway, but we'll at least have something to show for what progress we *have* made!

Thanks again for the kind words.  I'll try to keep everyone abreast of progress made.

Shield-only and hull-only weapons are no problem at all, just look at the Maxim and the Circe and make a couple changes.  The EMP missile is basically just a Stilletto with a shockwave.  The 'sappers' are either already possible, or need a bit of clever scripting.  Might need a couple code changes but afaict not anything big, probably the type of code I can do (someday when I have more time, that is).

*nods*, sounds like something we can look into, later.

I don't remember the tractor beam weapon, what did it do?  Just pull the ship towards you?  This doesn't exist in FS2, so it's trickier... might still be possible with some very clever scripting, but I dunno.  (Would be pretty cool though, multiplayer especially.)

I believe that tractor beams are possible based on a comment from the VBB's trick of the week thread (Over 5 years old and it's still got ideas in it I've not seen in a released campaign! ) What did the tractor do in Tachyon? Was it for pulling ships to you or did it allow you to scavenge for things dropped by other ships?

It slowed down the ship it targeted, basically.  Good to hear it's a possibility, at least

Of your second section, D., the multiple arenas thing is possible, I think.  I'm thinking something similar to what WCSaga does (very large distances), only instead of autopiloting as they do (which uses time compression), you use some clever SEXPing and/or scripting with a jump 'gate' that teleports you to the next area.

Sorry if I'm just hand-waving about the 'scripting'... so far, I barely know enough about it to have an idea what is and isn't possible.  Hope you can get some help with that... who knows, this might become a great showcase for what the scripting stuff (and scripter ) can do.

Hey, here's hopin!

Now your later questions:
Wanderer is right, it's all in the Max Velocity.  Yeah, you don't need to have a vertical thrust, just set it to 0.  Heh, I'd forgotten that Tachyon only had horizontal.

As for the rear velocity, it looks like you're doing the right thing... note that the throttle number does not show velocities less than 0, so you may want to double-check -- you could actually be moving backwards but perhaps not notice it?  20 is pretty slow (if that's what you put), and it does take time to 'accelerate'... maybe try a higher number.  If it still doesn't work, attach your table.

I may, soon    Tachyon relies heavily on it's reverse speeds being equal to it's forward speed, at least for most pilots who have played it a long time.    So, that's as high a priority as lats were, for that "tach feel"!

While you're at it, put
$Glide:                 YES
after the $Slide decel lines in your ships.tbl ... this allows for Gliding (Alt+G by default).  It's not exactly Tachyon but it's darn close.  (This one toggles gliding on/off, whereas Tachyon was press-to-glide, iirc.)

Took that advice   Works great.

  b. 32 by initial beta
  c. 64 by release (plan on dedicated server machine + possible SCP changes to support this)

You'll need SCP changes for both of these. Increasing the number of fighters you can have in multiplayer is something I am very interested in seeing done. It is however likely to be an absolutely massive task. If you can't find a programmer from outside the SCP to join us and make this his top priority I wouldn't bank on it getting done as the programmers we already have are very busy.

That said I do want to see it done. So I'm not saying that you should abandon all hope of ever seeing it if you can't find someone. Just that it is much less likely to be done if you can't.

(Is there a guide to optimizing MP for mods, or a list of files that determine Multiplayer gameplay and options?)

Not really. MP has largely been ignored by the mod community until very recently. I believe TBP may have had a couple of multiplayer missions but apart from that it was only when the BSG and Starfox teams began to get interested in MP that things began to look up. If you have a question feel free to ask. I'm happy to answer any questions you have as long as you'll report any multiplayer bugs you find.

Cool.  Since I'm likely going to have chiefly outside-the-HL testers (Tachyon players), the more information I can find about how the multiplayer servers and clients work, the better.  Especially, what is required to host, and join, a mod game.

5. Ability to further customize ships by adding custom "clan" or squadron insignia to identify ships
 6. Possibility of showing/identifying squadron, as well as factional membership in-game
(Species_defs, and... what, for showing squadrons in multiplayer?)

Showing insignia in multiplayer has always been possible although unlike Singleplayer it is the player who decides which insignia to use. If you can trust your players to stick to the squadrons and factions you want to you could do this now. If you want to control who gets what you'll need scripting and/or code changes.

Well, I can set factional insignia through ship textures, I guess.  The individual textures for "clans", though, is great.   That's something I always wanted, for Tach, because the community there was composed of mostly organized clans, or squadrons - and this will give them something to cheer for, let me tell you.  Where can I find info on image file formats, and the like, for these insignia?

I haven't really found a "how to make a total conversion" FAQ   Forgive the facetiousness, but it's a big project, and I was hoping to maybe learn from those who *have* worked on a total conversion (BSG and TBP come to mind...)

And you won't find one. Making a TC FAQ was very hard back in the days of retail. With FS2_Open its doubtful that anyone can be sufficiently knowledgable in all the fields needed to write such a FAQ.

What you can do is ask questions. We'll all be happy to help.

More than fair   Maybe I'll write one after I've slaved over this for long enough that I actually know what I'm doing!

Nice. Archangel was one of my favorites. And RazorKiss, I'm super busy with school but just hold on! Quarter ends next week and I'll have 6 weeks off to help you too.

If you could possibly work on reworking textures on a ship or two, I would be eternally grateful.  The Warhammer had some massive extraction errors that hosed it's original mapping, and it lost several texture images in the process.   I have it patched with an incredibly ugly-looking texture for now, but I'm afraid it might need a whole new uvmap/texture job :/  That's out of my league so far!

[Vengence]

I'm no skinner , I'm a modeler/rigger. I can't skin much at all.

[RazorsKiss]

I think I got rigging down.. maybe

How are you with legos?  I have about 50 disassembled capships and bases I have to put back togethter... lol.

I dunno   Shoot me a pm, and we'll see what we can figger out, man!  Thanks, very much for your offer