[Vip]

Nah, there were many more than 4 Orions it's just that Command likes the "need-to-know basis". They won't tell you about each and every ship's movement, just the things you should know (the battlegroup theory fits really nice here).

Besides, I don't think GTVA built any new Orions during the reconstruction period, involving themselves more in the Hecate, Deimos, and Hatshepsut. They were more eager on the high tech things.

perhaps they built Hecates, because they were easier/cheaper/faster to built ?? That would explain a lot. Or perhaps it was just another of Command's "great" ideas 

Ahh, and where have you found a 10km Hecate ?! That thing would pwn a Sathanas

[wtf_cl0vvn]

What, for that matter, is the organizational structure of the fleet? They always refer to the Vasudan Battlegroups and the Terran Fleets, but never vasudan fleets...but terran battlegroups, and GTVA battlegroups, and the colossus=battlegroup....

its very confusing...

Every fleet has a flagship, and probably one destroyer per battlegroup/flotilla/[subunit].....dont know how many that is though.
What fleet does the GTD Carthage belong to?

[Col. Fishguts]

I wouldn't put too much thought in this, since I'm pretty sure didn't either.

[Goober5000]

I'm assuming there were fewer Orions than systems, since the FS1 story material mentions that a short-term stay by an Orion is greeted with happiness, but a long-term stay is greeted with fear.  On the other hand, there are ten canon FS1 destroyers, not four:

GTD Galatea
GTD Bastion
GTD Intrepid
GTD Minnow
GTD Amadeus
GTD Krios
GTD Myrmidon
GTD
GTD Soyakaze
[unnamed FS2 intro Orion]

Then again, "Reaching the Zenith" mentions that the Shivans have confined the GTA to nine core Terran systems, so perhaps decided there are additional populated systems not shown on the official map.

[Polpolion]

The destroyer in the intro was the Legion, IIRC.

[AdmiralRalwood]

"GTD Legion" sounds familiar, but all I can remember about the intro was confirming it wasn't the Galatea.

[Goober5000]

The destroyer in the intro was the Legion, IIRC.

That's fanon.  Fanon accepted as correct even by themselves, but fanon nonetheless.

[Polpolion]

The destroyer in the intro was the Legion, IIRC.

That's fanon.  Fanon accepted as correct even by themselves, but fanon nonetheless.

assuming Fanon is not a misspelling, what is it?

[AdmiralRalwood]

The destroyer in the intro was the Legion, IIRC.

That's fanon.  Fanon accepted as correct even by themselves, but fanon nonetheless.

assuming Fanon is not a misspelling, what is it?

Something accepted as correct by the fandom, but not canon. "Fan canon."

[Mars]

I'm assuming there were fewer Orions than systems, since the FS1 story material mentions that a short-term stay by an Orion is greeted with happiness, but a long-term stay is greeted with fear.  On the other hand, there are ten canon FS1 destroyers, not four:

GTD Galatea
GTD Bastion
GTD Intrepid
GTD Minnow
GTD Amadeus
GTD Krios
GTD Myrmidon
GTD
GTD Soyakaze
[unnamed FS2 intro Orion]

Then again, "Reaching the Zenith" mentions that the Shivans have confined the GTA to nine core Terran systems, so perhaps decided there are additional populated systems not shown on the official map.

I recall them saying that there were "dozens of systems" off of a specific system on the node map, I think in FS1 they were thinking of more systems but by FS2 they dropped the idea.

[IceFire]

Nah, there were many more than 4 Orions it's just that Command likes the "need-to-know basis". They won't tell you about each and every ship's movement, just the things you should know (the battlegroup theory fits really nice here).

Besides, I don't think GTVA built any new Orions during the reconstruction period, involving themselves more in the Hecate, Deimos, and Hatshepsut. They were more eager on the high tech things.

perhaps they built Hecates, because they were easier/cheaper/faster to built ?? That would explain a lot. Or perhaps it was just another of Command's "great" ideas 

Ahh, and where have you found a 10km Hecate ?! That thing would pwn a Sathanas

From the way things go in FreeSpace, it seems that the Orions were designed to largely be battleships with fighter capacity.  Hecates seem to be more of a battlegroup HQ or carrier type role with the corvettes providing most of the offensive punch of the battlegroup while the Hecate hangs back.

[Mustang19]

Does anyone here still remember the FS1 command briefs? It treats those four destroyers like they're the only ones in existence. When it talks about fleet movements, it only talks about those four, even though it's refering to every system from Deneb to Ross 128. I'm sure if there were other destroyers, they would be mentioned. At the start of the war, I'm guessing they had six-

"After the 3rd Fleet lost the GTD Amadeus in the Vega system, the GTA and the Parliament of Vasuda have both declared open states of war against the Shivan forces." (command brief, sm 1-08a "The Hammer and the Anvil", where you escort the shield prototypes)

The Amadeus was destroyed, and the Krios was a GTI destroyer that only showed up in Silent Threat. The Myrmidon, Legion, and Soyakaze are not mentioned in FS1 as far as I know- they're FS2. So our list becomes:

GTD Bastion
GTD Galatea
GTD Intrepid
GTD Minnow
GTD Krios (possible)

Considering how much detail Command gives about their destroyers, I don't think that they would omit a few. I'm pretty sure that the GTA started the Great War off with five or six destroyers and ended with four or five. If a whole star empire can only produce that many destroyers, the must be REALLY expensive. Now consider the cost of a Colossus or Sathanas...

[AlphaOne]

Good to see this thread is about ship sizes )  ! But seriously it is stupid to believe that there were only 4 or 5 Orions in the whole GTVA. They must of built more of them in the reconstruction era since both the Hecate and the Hatsheapsut came later during the reconstruction era. So in the mean time just build what you can till new classes are available. Also I imagine that once the newwer classes of destroyers came into production the shipyards to produce them already existed. So who knows maibe they could of built as many as 12 destroyers every 3 years or 1 or 20 depending on the number of shipyards capable of building them and on the money they were willing to invest in building a large powerfull fleet really fast.

[NGTM-1R]

The Amadeus was destroyed, and the Krios was a GTI destroyer that only showed up in Silent Threat. The Myrmidon, Legion, and Soyakaze are not mentioned in FS1 as far as I know- they're FS2.

The Soyakaze and Myrmidon are FS1, specifically Silent Threat. To assume that any of the Silent Threat destroyers were not in active service during the events of FS1 is not wise, because given the basic size and complexity of the Orion they must have been at least engaged in a shakedown cruise when the Shivans arrived...and the emergency would have pushed them into active service almost without doubt.

[Mustang19]

They probably were manufactured during the Great War. There seemed to have been a major spike in GTA military production right after the Shivan invasion. I mean, during the FS1 campaign you get all kinds of brand-new weapons and ships during the space of just three months of war, so I have the impression that the GTA uses its "surge capacity" during every Shivan invasion to build a whole bunch of new ships and takes a break during peacetime. There's evidence of this if you consider how many ships were developed during 30 years of the Reconstruction period compared to how many new stuff is introduced in the FS1 and 2 campaigns.

Either way, during the Great War itself, I think that there were only 5 destroyers at the beginning, with the Krios, etc. being put into service just as the conflict ended. Apparently what [V] is trying to say is that you can build the ships very quickly with future technology, you just need the raw materials to do it. But I think that if a destroyer was taking part in the fighting, it would be mentioned in the command briefs.

Either-

1. The Soyakuze, Myrmidon and Krios were launched after the Great War was over using the GTA's "surge capacity", in time for ST, or
2. They were badly damaged during the T-V war and under repair, they didn't have enough crew or fighters to go into battle, they were undergoing some kind of refitting, etc.

[Taristin]

1. The Soyakuze, Myrmidon and Krios were launched after the Great War was over using the GTA's "surge capacity", in time for ST, or
2. They were badly damaged during the T-V war and under repair, they didn't have enough crew or fighters to go into battle, they were undergoing some kind of refitting, etc.

Why only those two? Why is it impossible for them to have been in service outside of the players scope of knowledge? Why do you think the player has to know everything that goes on in a game or a story?

[Dark Hunter]

I agree with Taristin, here. What you're saying makes about as much sense as saying: "Vasudan Battlegroups 1-12 don't exist because Vasudan Battlegroup 13 is the only one mentioned in FS2."


By the time of FS2, at least, it seems that there's one Terran Fleet or Vasudan Battlegroup per two or three systems. Each fleet/battlegroup has a destroyer as a flagship, and it's probably safe to assume that they each have a destroyer as backup (given the number of Terran destroyers that show up in FS2, and the number of fleets mentioned). Since the GTVA rules over about 40 systems by that point, that's, I estimate: at least 26 destroyers, plus whichever ones were assigned to the Collossus Fleet.

Further evidence against your argument: both the GTD Bastion and the GTD Nereid were called Great War vintage destoryers. The Nereid was not mentioned in FS1/ST.

[karajorma]

Not to mention the fact that we wouldn't get updated on the movements of ships which were just sitting still guarding key systems cause there wouldn't be much to say. Just simply "GTD whatever is still holding station in Sol"

[NGTM-1R]

What's the maximum rank you can reach in one playthrough? Lieutenant Commander maybe? Even as a squadron leader, you wouldn't be informed about such things in any case.

[Polpolion]

Rank doesn't affect de/briefs... Does it?