Author Topic: Wing Commander Saga on PCGamer Podcast.  (Read 4131 times)

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Offline Starman01

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Re: Wing Commander Saga on PCGamer Podcast.
Here are my 2 cents.  :)  I really don't understand all the hipe that our models are so incredibly low poly.

We are trying to make some upgrades on the models and attach subtile details like engines, turrets, hangarstuff and a few modifications to the outer hull. But if we plug the hull full of greebling, we will distinguish the models from their original look that we are trying to keep. Not to mention, that a lot of these subtile highpoly stuff isn't really visible in intensive battles. We have to satisfy two groups of people. New ones to attrack them to the game, and the "older" group that seek the nostalgic feeling and want to came across something similar. so we have to find the way between the two :)

Even more important, the main release will have even bigger battles with lots of fighters and capships, and making them any higher poly will certainly have a negative aspect on performance, since there are much more people with crappy systems out there that I had imagined.

I.e. our kilrathi cruiser comes with 6000 polygons, 4400 if I remove the hangarstuff (while 1500 are in the turrets). That's certainly not highpoly, but I think it's enough for a good gameplay and a good look. Of course Bobboaus detail box code is a great addition, but it will require quite some extra work for a little "Oh-Effect" in my opinion, and we don't have the ressources for this extra work. Our plans for the main release are very big, and we will have to focus on more important stuff first. If then there is a possibility to improve the models, we will take it of course.

But like mentioned above, one reason why we took so long already, is that we always start working stuff all over again. New engine possibilities or our own experience growing are two of the reasons for that. That's a problem when a project takes as long as ours. Of course we could do a lot of stuff better, but when we want to get finished someday we will now have to continue with what we have achived with the prologue and make the rest in a similar lookout. I want to have some continuity in our model style, and that requires to forfeit some things, even if it sometimes hurt :(

For the moment, we are taking this sort of improvement, some ships a little more than that :
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,28932.msg590784.html#msg590784

Same goes for the textures, I like them, but they can be better (capships, our fighters are great IMO and very well detailed). But now we have started this style, and so we have to keep it if we don't want to rework everything again. Because of the UV-Maps we can't simply switch the textures, but I really hope that with bumpmapping or something similar we can improve the look a little more and add some more subtile details to the models when someday the release will be made.

@SadisticSid : It's a 10 mission prologue :)
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Offline castor

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Re: Wing Commander Saga on PCGamer Podcast.
That makes perfect sense  :yes:

 

Offline DaBrain

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Re: Wing Commander Saga on PCGamer Podcast.
Ermm... the Galactica mod?

...and BWO is trying to fix that mistake... really we are ;)

BtRL has models that work fine on everything but total low-end. When we release the full version, those models won't be highly detailed compared to other games anymore.

And still... I think BtRL has the most detailed content of all FS2 mods. So what does that mean for the other mods? ;)


I don't know about BWO, but I doubt you guys made content that hardly worked well on your PCs when you started the mod.


@Starman01

I don't have a problem with that. WCS doesn't look bad and the models are very accurate copies of the originals.
It may take a while till the final release is ready. And by then, WCS should somewhat evolve.

I already miss proper support for env mapping. And I really hope you'll consider the use of normal mapping.
If WCS features good normal maps, less people will complain about low-polyness. ;)

I can write short tutorial for the env mapping part. It's not that hard. If we split up the work, we can do it in a few days I guess.

Plus the env map *can* be useful for normal map creation. Actually, that was one of my approaches to automatically generate normal maps for all FS2 ships and replace them later with 'proper' normal maps. One by one.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2007, 08:18:16 am by DaBrain »
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Offline Tolwyn

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Re: Wing Commander Saga on PCGamer Podcast.
I think BtRL has the most detailed content of all FS2 mods. So what does that mean for the other mods? ;)

It means, that you are bragging :)

Quote
I don't have a problem with that. WCS doesn't look bad and the models are very accurate copies of the originals.
It may take a while till the final release is ready. And by then, WCS should somewhat evolve.

I doubt that it will evolve modelwise. Our aim never was to create uber-models, extra large texture map. The primary aim was to keep the retro look and at the same time add subtile details. We will, of course, make use of bump/normal mapping, when it comes out. But we will not upgrade our models until the project is finished. Upgrading textures/models is an option after the main release.

Quote
I already miss proper support for env mapping. And I really hope you'll consider the use of normal mapping.
If WCS features good normal maps, less people will complain about low-polyness. ;)

It is of course an option. In any case, env mapping should only be applied to glass surfaces.

Quote
I can write short tutorial for the env mapping part. It's not that hard. If we split up the work, we can do it in a few days I guess.

Plus the env map *can* be useful for normal map creation. Actually, that was one of my approaches to automatically generate normal maps for all FS2 ships and replace them later with 'proper' normal maps. One by one.

That would be welcome :) Speaking on normal maps: I guess, there is no test build, where we could test how it might look like in the end.
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Re: Wing Commander Saga on PCGamer Podcast.
Low poly models?

Hmmmm

*whistles innocently and walks away*  :drevil:
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

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Re: Wing Commander Saga on PCGamer Podcast.
That would be welcome :) Speaking on normal maps: I guess, there is no test build, where we could test how it might look like in the end.

Yes I would really like to see normal mapping supported, even if it's just a slow hack for the now (even though  I couldn't use normal mapping on this video card)  I have a reason for this request  :)
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Re: Wing Commander Saga on PCGamer Podcast.
I'd like to see stencil shadows make a return...

 
Re: Wing Commander Saga on PCGamer Podcast.
@SadisticSid : It's a 10 mission prologue :)

Sorry, I was mistaken. But of those 10, 3 are simple skirmishes, and 2 aren't part of the campaign - and they're hidden in the tech room to boot. So they probably missed them like I did!

Looking forward to the full thing very much BTW :yes:

 

Offline Starman01

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Re: Wing Commander Saga on PCGamer Podcast.

and they're hidden in the tech room to boot. So they probably missed them like I did!


That's indeed a very big problem that we have :(  And still I'm not sure how we could have announced them differently, when even people that know Freespace miss them :(
MECHCOMMANDER OMNITECH

9 out of 10 voices in my head always tell me that I'm not insane. The 10th is only humming the melody of TETRIS.

 

Offline DaBrain

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Re: Wing Commander Saga on PCGamer Podcast.
I think BtRL has the most detailed content of all FS2 mods. So what does that mean for the other mods? ;)

It means, that you are bragging :)

[/quote]

Ah... don't pull that out of the context. BtRL isn't the only mod I work on. I'm (of course) more commited to my own project. I admit that BtRL has the best models though.


@Scooby game models are generally called 'low-poly models'. Render movies are using 'high-poly models'.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Wing Commander Saga on PCGamer Podcast.
I don't want WCSaga to have higher-poly models, but some of those ships desperately need better texturing. The transport comes to mind.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: Wing Commander Saga on PCGamer Podcast.
And still... I think BtRL has the most detailed content of all FS2 mods. So what does that mean for the other mods? ;)

Of all TCs, maybe.......