[Huggybaby]

This is the list of everything installed between Shivan and Turey, I'd love to add more, as long as they're compatible with SCP.

If some of these don't require the files listed, let me know please. I think mods need them but campaigns don't, I'm unclear.

Thanks!


Needed

Deus Ex Machina: a bitmap and a mod.ini file

Homesick: a bitmap, and a mod.ini file


Complete

Derelict SCP

Flames of War

FS Port

Inferno R1

Just another Day 1 and 2

Sol, a History

Sync

Transcend

[Axem]

Can't you just find the fc2 in the download from each campaign?

[Huggybaby]

Well, I don't know whether the fc2's are the same or different for each mod. I also don't know if any on the list shouldn't have them. That's why I'm beseeching anybody with true knowledge to clue me in.

[Turey]

I still don't see the point of the FreeSpace2.fc2 files. if most people aren't going to look in the campaign selector anyways, why bother placing so many files just to change the name of the main campaign?

[Huggybaby]

Because it's proper? Maybe karajorma knows, I think he was coaching Shivan.

Regardless, there must be a right way and a wrong way.

[karajorma]

I still don't see the point of the FreeSpace2.fc2 files. if most people aren't going to look in the campaign selector anyways, why bother placing so many files just to change the name of the main campaign?

The campaign file is basically identical to the standard FS2 one with a warning that the standard FS2 campaign won't run properly on this mod.

I know that a majority of people who would trip over the problem are still going to trip over the error even with the campaign file there but a few might be the sort who explore the options a little and if they do the campaign room should now show them the error and how to fix it (and it's the latter that is more important).

[Huggybaby]

OK, thanks.

I still haven't had my basic questions answered though!

Which of the mods listed as having missing files need an fc2? And do they all use the same one?

I mean, this looks like specific information to me that can change for each mod, and I have to trust someone else to provide it:

Code: [Select]

+Starting Ships: ( "GTF Ulysses"  "GTF Hercules"  "GTF Loki"  "GTF Myrmidon"  "GTB Medusa"  "GTB Ursa"  "GTB Zeus"  "GVF Seth"  "GVF Horus"  "GVF Thoth"  "GVB Osiris" )

+Starting Weapons: ( "Subach HL-7"  "Mekhu HL-7"  "Akheton SDG"  "Rockeye"  "Tempest" )


$Mission: Training-1.fs2
+Flags: 0
+Formula: ( cond
   (
      ( is-previous-goal-true
         "Training-1.fs2"
         "Flight Training"
      )
      ( next-mission "Training-2.fs2" )
   )
   ( ( true ) ( next-mission "Training-1.fs2" ) )
)

+Level: 0
+Position: 2

[karajorma]

None of the campaigns need that file at all.

The file you're seeing only exists for two reasons. Both of which only affect the campaign room. First it changes the name of the FS2 Campaign to Freespace 2 Main Campaign (Not Working). Second it gives instructions on how to run FS2_Open using mediavps as your mod.

Apart from that it's the same as the original Freespace campaign file which the game will otherwise read from root_fs2.vp

[Huggybaby]

Thanks. I don't remember seeing "Freespace 2 Main Campaign (Not Working)", I'll have to check again.

I'm still confused on the difference between a Mod and a Campaign and a Mission. I'd like to include the fc2 file, just for the sake of completeness, even though it seems to bother oldbies. Hunter told me that if noobs weren't smart enough to go in the campaign room and select the proper mission, it wouldn't matter. LOL Nevertheless, call me a picker of nits.

I think they should either all be included or all be removed, so that Shivan and Turey can be the same, otherwise I might go crazy. You seem to be the best guy to dictate a standard, what say you?

Thanks again,

Huggybaby

[karajorma]

I'm still confused on the difference between a Mod and a Campaign and a Mission.

Which is why I stuck the terms in my FAQ's Glossary page

Campaign   The name for a series of missions which must be flown in order. As opposed to stand alone missions which can be flown from the tech room.
Mod   A modification of the game. This can be a single new ship, weapon or effect or a collection of them. A large package of mods is usually accompanied by a new series of missions so the term campaign is often also used for these.

I'd like to include the fc2 file, just for the sake of completeness, even though it seems to bother oldbies. Hunter told me that if noobs weren't smart enough to go in the campaign room and select the proper mission, it wouldn't matter. LOL Nevertheless, call me a picker of nits.

I considered having the campaign file there worth the hassle for ShivanSPS since it's just one tiny little file for him to add. Adding it to Turey's install is much more difficult as all the other campaigns would have to include it in their downloads. So basically it's probably not worth the hassle for him to add it as it doesn't help enough people with their problem. Now if someone were to make a mission called Training-1.fs2 which simply consisted of the default ship and a message saying "Ye canne run the Freespace 2 campaign on the FS1 Port ye daft idjot" that might make it worth it.
 I briefly considered the idea when I was making the campaign file but decided against it on the grounds that someone would end up sticking the mission in a different folder (like mediavps) and screw up a working copy of FS2.

I think they should either all be included or all be removed, so that Shivan and Turey can be the same, otherwise I might go crazy. You seem to be the best guy to dictate a standard, what say you?

I don't think it's worth the hassle of making it a standard. The file is basically going to stop a handful of people coming onto the forum to report a problem. Most of the people who are running into this problem probably won't notice the cause even on Shivans' pack and will post to complain. It's worth adding if it can be done with no hassle but it's not worth causing problems over.

[Huggybaby]

Points well taken. It seems we agree then that the file is of SOME benefit, and that if it can be added without difficulty, then it should. Otherwise, it's not worth a big sweat.

I've edited my first post, now I only need:

Deus Ex Machina: a bitmap and a mod.ini file

Homesick: a bitmap and a mod.ini file

Which is why I stuck the terms in my FAQ's Glossary page

LOL I was waiting for someone to tell me to read your guide, I'm glad it was you! You must know that I have, and to tell the truth it will make a lot more sense now that I've learned so much in the last week.

Does your guide reflect the new -mod folder layout, or does it talk about putting everything in the root folder like it used to be done? Never mind, I'll go find out. 

Thanks for the info. For someone with 21,210 posts you have a lot of patience for answering what must be the same question for the millionth time. Well, I guess that's impossible. Make it the 20 thousandth time.

[karajorma]

LOL I was waiting for someone to tell me to read your guide, I'm glad it was you! You must know that I have, and to tell the truth it will make a lot more sense now that I've learned so much in the last week.

I figured you had but I don't expect you to remember all of it after one reading. Hell I don't remember half of it sometimes

Does your guide reflect the new -mod folder layout, or does it talk about putting everything in the root folder like it used to be done? Never mind, I'll go find out. 

It does but it's getting old. I'll be updating it soon.

Thanks for the info. For someone with 21,210 posts you have a lot of patience for answering what must be the same question for the millionth time. Well, I guess that's impossible. Make it the 20 thousandth time.

Well for me it's a ridiculously large number of times sometimes but for the user it's generally a problem which has it's roots in our documentation etc not being good enough. I suppose I should have spent the time I spent answering questions on actually writing documentation

[Huggybaby]

I suppose I should have spent the time I spent answering questions on actually writing documentation.

Perhaps. But there's an impediment which you can't humanly avoid: you simply cannot see it from the perspective of a brand new user anymore. Plus, you spent so many hours already on your guide, you can't be quite as motivated to update it YET AGAIN.

The new mod format is so fantastically more logical and simple, it renders most of the existing documentation obsolete, even dangerously misleading. Were you to update your guide, that leaves all the misleading mod readme's. Some people (like me) have read those and were, umm, confused. "Do the files go here? Or here? What's going on" That one change was HUGE in regards to documentation. All the other changes pale in comparison.

I'll be glad when Shivan's 2.0 installer is out so I can drastically shorten my little guide.

Thanks again to karajorma, taylor, ShivanSPS, Turey, and [DW] Hunter for helping us noobs. Sorry for leaving anyone out.

[karajorma]

The new mod format is so fantastically more logical and simple, it renders most of the existing documentation obsolete, even dangerously misleading. Were you to update your guide, that leaves all the misleading mod readme's. Some people (like me) have read those and were, umm, confused. "Do the files go here? Or here? What's going on"

That's one reason why I wrote the following in my installing mods section.

Be very wary of what the readmes that come with mods tell you to do. Many mods were written for FS2, before FS2_Open had its new mod managing features or by people only vaguely aware of what they do. For this reason I'll give you a golden rule.

NEVER install anything to Freespace2\Data regardless of what the instructions say.

If you are following this guide there is no reason to install there. Installing to that folder means that FS2 retail and multiplayer will load the mod and probably break. The only exception is if you want the mod to work on multiplayer or retail. For instance if you have downloaded the validated multiplayer missions then there is no harm in placing them there as you want retail multiplayer to be able to access them. However you must take great care when doing this. Any problems you experience later could very easily be due to you installing a retail mod and then forgetting you did it. Since FS2_Open will run the vast majority of retail mods you're probably better off simply installing the mod for FS2_Open.

[Huggybaby]

NEVER install anything to Freespace2\Data regardless of what the instructions say.

I remember someone else quoting that the other day. OK, I'm reading your guide again, I promise.