[Huggybaby]

Where to begin? At the beginning of course. What I want to develop is a reference gallery of pics, showing the affects of changes in the launcher. Oldbies can say "I like this effect, what happened to that effect?" Well, how many people can join that conversation? Not anybody that hasn't been following SCP for a long time, that's for sure. I want to make it everybody, even us nugs ("new useless guys" as we called them in the army.) All we need is pics and parameters. I'll start with some crappy pics and the most basic parameters. I'll make better screenshots later.

What happened was, I was running FS2 SCP, and I had cranked my ATI x700 video card settings to max. I'm talking  6x AA, 16x AF, highest quality texture settings etc. using the fantastic NGO drivers and ATI Tray Tools, but for some reason I was staying at my max 100fps rather than dropping to 15 with the big explosions. "Wow" I thought, my video card must have magically sorted itself out! 

Then I realized I was running No Mods. So, I switched to mediavps, STILL 100 fps! WOW, this is really cool! THEN I noticed I had NONE of the graphics flags enabled! Huggy, you dip****!

So I got to thinking, as I'm wont to do..."It's funny I can't tell when they're turned off because it looks so good anyway". And I really like a steady frame rate. But that's another topic---and oh yes, I'll get to that in another post in about an hour.

So, what exactly are the differences? And are there tradeoffs? Yes, I found something I liked better with the no mod than with the mediavps version, but that's with no flags.

This will take some time, but it will be great fun and really worthwhile when we're done---especially as you contribute your own observations. I really like documenting stuff in a definitive manner. It keeps people from having to answer the same questions over and over, so they can spend their time in more productive pursuits. So let's begin.

No flags at all:

With no mods (left), the basilisk has a nice red stripe
While the mediavps version (center) looks dull by comparison
Although a mediavps drone (right) DOES have color. Hmmm.

Top we see a no mods damaged ship is trailing nice evidence of damage
Center we see the fuzzy cloud-like damage trail from the mediavps version
Bottom is Bobboau's particle fix, perhaps the best of all, it's very red and sparky looking

[Gregster2k]

  I assure you, the Basilisk is definitely supposed to be red even with MVPs. >_>

However, as for the damage trails, I have to agree on that one...a mix between the two would be preferable. Although be prepared for the scientific types here to jump on here claiming that the new one is superior because it's "venting oxygen" or something...

[CP5670]

For the first image, you need to turn on the glowmaps flag (-glow). It doesn't look like you have specular mapping (-shine) on either. Those flags along with -jpgtga are pretty much the bare minimum that should be turned on with the media VPs, and environmental mapping (-env) is in most cases a good idea too.

That being said, there are a few cases where the media VP content looks much worse than the retail versions, particularly some of the weapon shots. I have brought this up repeatedly in this past, but I don't know if it has been addressed yet. It's pretty easy to revert to the originals though, by replacing the tbm file with one that has the weapon images removed (the Maxim and Circe are the main culprits, but there are also a few others).

[Huggybaby]

I assure you, the Basilisk is definitely supposed to be red even with MVPs

Thanks, that's what I need to determine. I'm pretty sure the Basilisk will get color back once I turn on one of the flags, this is just the baseline. I want to document all the ins and outs, what needs to be on, what not, etc.
It's probably impractical to document every permutation of the graphics flags, but I felt like I needed to start somewhere.

However, as for the damage trails, I have to agree on that one...a mix between the two would be preferable. Although be prepared for the scientific types here to jump on here claiming that the new one is superior because it's "venting oxygen" or something...

Alright, I didn't get flamed from the jump, thanks CP5670!
I remember my first "Oh wow!" moment. I was playing Wing Commander. My ship had taken damage in a fight. In the flyby animation between nav points, I saw that sparks were coming out of my ship. And it happened to my wingman too. That was cool! Those sparks did NOT look like escaping oxygen. Screw scientific realism, explosion sounds don't happen in a vacuum, nor do gasoline fireballs. FS may be the LEAST realistic of all space sims! 

[Bobboau]

geese, that is lame.
try these

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Huggybaby]

CP5670 (Reply #2) I cross posted you and completely missed your reply.

For the first image, you need to turn on the glowmaps flag (-glow). It doesn't look like you have specular mapping (-shine) on either. Those flags along with -jpgtga are pretty much the bare minimum that should be turned on with the media VPs, and environmental mapping (-env) is in most cases a good idea too.

You're correct, I had NOTHING turned on. I'm trying to get pics of what each flag does, and I'll see if I can get shots of the flag combo you suggest.
When you say "the bare minimum that should be turned on with the media VPs", that's what I'm looking for, though I guess that overlaps with my other performance/quality topic. I don't know if I'll be able to keep the two separate.

Bobboau, your zip contains three excitement inducing ani's. Please remember I know nothing.
Where should your ani's be placed and what should I expect to see compared to what I have now?

And since I had no graphics flags turned on in my pics, will your ani's work without any flags, and if not, what do I need to turn on to activate them?

And will these be included in the upcoming 3.6.9 mediavp's?

I'm not sure you guys realize how advanced you are! I'm trying to bridge the gap between the programmers and the absolute know-nothings, the goal being maximum eye candy that can be scaled back as necessary depending on system performance.

[aRaven]

if i stand correct the anis should go into the data/effects folder

[Huggybaby]

Thanks aRaven, I'll try that and if it makes a difference I'll take a screenshot.

Been busy so slow on the shots, plus I really need to place them side by side and I'm not sure how to do that in a bbs post---hmm, I think I can use tables.

[DaBrain]

And will these be included in the upcoming 3.6.9 mediavp's?

No, they won't. The effect is supposed to like fire. Also the particles shouldn't use ANIs, cause ANI particles are known to cause slow-downs when you get close to them.


I'll try to create something more firy looking.

[Huggybaby]

Does that mean you will quit using ani's?

I changed to tables. And to get better shots, I just flew closer LOL

[DaBrain]

Yes, I've converted all ANIs that might matter in this case to EFF.

Hopefully, the framerates will be more constant now.

[Huggybaby]

Awesome, when you provide the link, PLEASE tell me how to install them.

And are EFF's and DDS's the same thing?
<edit> The link to the mod starter pack in your sig is broken.

[Herra Tohtori]

No.

DDS is a file type, like BMP, JPG, TGA and the like.

ANI is an animation file that contains frames in PCX format.

EFF is an animation system used only Freespace Open, as far as I know.

An EFF file is a plain text file that only contains a few lines of text that specify the frame rate of the animation, number of frames, and the file type of the frames. EFF animation can use practically any image type that FSOpen uses, but DDS is mostly used these days because it has excellent quality/size ratio and it also contains mipmaps in layers, so it speeds up mipmapping process too (which naturally enhances performance).

For example, if you want to make an EFF animation that has frame rate of 24 fps and uses, say, 48 frames, you do it like this.

Filename.eff:
$Type: DDS  #announces the filetype used in the individual frames
$Frames: 48 #number of individual frames
$FPS: 24  #frame rate

Now, you place this file in appropriate folder along with all the individual frames named as

filename_01.DDS, filename_02.DDS etc. etc.

And when you specify an effect to use the texture "filename", the EFF system uses the frames as animation.

The advantages to ANI's are obvious, because the animations are no more limited by PCX file type's rather severe limitations. All hail DDS files!

[Turey]

<edit> The link to the mod starter pack in your sig is broken.

try this.

To convert the old Gamespy links into HLP links, do this:
1. Look at the Gamespy link. It should be something like
http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=XXX
2. See the XXX? Take the number that is there and put it into the following link at the XXX:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,XXX.0.html

[Huggybaby]

Neat, thanks for the scoop Herra Tohtori, that clears up a lot. When you say "place this file in appropriate folder", which folder might that be?

Thanks for the link turey.

I added a pic. I documented that using mediavps, drones are colorful while the Basilisk is not. From reading I know that not all models have been "converted", but I'm not sure what they need to be converted to or whether this has anything to do with it, or if I made a mistake somewhere.

[Herra Tohtori]

Neat, thanks for the scoop Herra Tohtori, that clears up a lot. When you say "place this file in appropriate folder", which folder might that be?

That's case-specific. Effects go to ..\FREESPACE2\<mod>\data\effects, animated ship textures go to ..\FREESPACE2\<mod>\data\maps as far as I know, but I have only meddled with effects files myself (particularly, beam textures).

Easiest way is (if you're replacing some old ANI file with new animation) to look where the old ANI file is, and put the new EFF ani and the frame files in corresponding directory.

[Huggybaby]

Thanks. I hope that anybody who posts such effects files will specify the path as a matter of course, but it seems too often to be taken for granted.
<edit> I noticed Bobboau's effects don't work when mediavps is selected, a priority issue.
And now I can't find which mission I was using to take pics of the Basilisk.

[Bobboau]

those effects predate eff code, I've had them for a VERY long time, that is why they are not effs. I like them better than a 'fire' 'smoke' effect, not because those effects are less realistic (wich incedently they are) but because I think they look cooler. but that is my oppionion and it could be wrong.

and yeah, effs get priority over ani, so any ani in a vp will overide and ani of the same name.

[Huggybaby]

OK, so how do I make your cool effects work AND use mediavps at the same time? Do I need to use vpview, or can I put them in some particular folder?

[Herra Tohtori]

Extract the frames from the ani's and make an EFF file out of them.


It might also be possible to override the EFF animations with some multimod setup, but I would simply extract the ANI file to individual frames, throw the frame files into mediavps/data/effects and write an EFF file. That will definitely take care of overriding issues. Just takes some work...