Author Topic: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.  (Read 6541 times)

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Offline Unknown Target

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Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
Read and weep.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070110/wl_csm/oclamp

A "legal coup" if you will.

Some interesting bits:

Quote
Emboldened by his resounding reelection victory on Dec. 3, Mr. Chávez announced plans this week to nationalize power and telecom companies as part of an accelerated move toward socialism.

Quote
In the past week, he has purged his cabinet of ministers deemed insufficiently radical, bringing in a new group of loyalists that includes his brother, Adan. He has begun to merge the more than 20 parties in his governing coalition into a single force under his control. And, under a controversial new law, he is set to take control of nongovernmental organizations that could oppose his government.

Quote
Chávez is also moving to take control of civic groups, some of which have been critical of his government. Under a proposed law now in Congress, NGOs will have to reregister with the government, even if they have been operating legally for years. Foreign funding will have to pass through the government, and NGOs would have to open their files to anyone that requests it.

Quote
Chávez is also gearing up to change the constitution to allow his indefinite re-election - and has vowed to remain in power until 2021.

Quote
With political passions on the rise, Chávez's opponents say they are bracing themselves for a renewed crackdown. Some of the 3.5 million Venezuelans on a political blacklist compiled by his government two years ago say they have noticed a recent upswing in harassment by government officials.

Quote

CARACAS, VENEZUELA - As Venezuela embarked on another six years under Hugo Chávez, the president announced plans to nationalize power and telecommunications companies. He also said he wanted a constitutional amendment to strip the Central Bank of its autonomy and would soon ask the National Assembly, solidly controlled by his allies, to approve "a set of revolutionary laws" by presidential decree.





Quote
"We're heading toward socialism, and nothing and no one can prevent it," he said in a televised address after swearing in his new cabinet on Monday.
(emphasis added)



 
Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
Yikes. Not such a "lovable rogue" now eh?

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
To be fair to him he has every right to appoint who the **** he likes to his cabinet.

Some of the other things sound a bit more worrying though. Especially if Amnesty International and Reporters Without Borders are having a go at him
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Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
Sounds like somebody's cruisin' for a house call from the CIA.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Sarafan

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
Honestly, about the fact that he's nationalizing things, I think he's right to do that, hell, I'd wish my government had the balls to do the same. About the rest, I dont know if thats true since the opposition there, who already tried to a coup on him in the first place, are the ones who control the media and the things he wants to nationalize and the international media hates him as well.


Quote
"We're heading toward socialism, and nothing and no one can prevent it," he said in a televised address after swearing in his new cabinet on Monday.
(emphasis added)


So? Whats wrong with that?

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
To be fair to him he has every right to appoint who the **** he likes to his cabinet.

A politician surrounding himself with people who just agree with him all the time does the country no ****ing good.  Bush did it, and look how Iraq and foreign policy in general went.


Quote
"We're heading toward socialism, and nothing and no one can prevent it," he said in a televised address after swearing in his new cabinet on Monday.
(emphasis added)


So? Whats wrong with that?

There's nothing wrong with socialism or a nation's self-determination.  However, doing it the Chavez method through harrassing political opponents and eliminating all sources of dissent in his advisory is the damned wrong way to do it.  It's exactly what Bush and the neoconservatives have done, minus the harrassment.  I'm not worried about it here in the US, because our election system and constitution allows for this **** to change quickly, but Venezuela... I'm not sure.
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Offline Rictor

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
[RICTOR-BOT ACTIVATED]
--[IMPASSIONED DEFENSE OF CHAVEZ SUBSYSTEM INITIATED]
----[T-MINUS 3....2...1]

ah damn, I can't now, I'm at work. But soon.

----[RICTOR-BOT STANDBY SEQUENCE INITIATED]
--[AWAITING FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS]

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
Rictor, honestly, defending this is like defending what Bush has done over the past seven years.  I mean, I'd love to hear the devil's advocate, but I really hope you don't actually support this sort of bull****.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline Ace

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
That is what's disgusting about this, he claims that Bush is the devil but does the exact same things as Bush. The blacklists, filing positions with cronies, etc.
Ace
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-Alfred Hitchcock

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
yay, more commies to nuke!
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
That's a horrible thing to say. The US does not nuke commies; we provide funds and munitions for right-wing coups to assassinate the commies. Do you think we're barbarians or something?
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Sarafan

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
He's not the same as Bush, honestly, I believe half of that are simply lies. The people voted on him twice, he has the support of the majority of the people and its far too easy for the opposition to scream that they're being oppressed.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
well the thing with Rictor is he beleives so much in self determination he will even defend it when people determine not to allow self determination for themselves anymore.

actualy Sarafan, he controles the TV and such now, well he'll put anyone who badmouth's him inn jail, that's the big reason why I didn't like him to begin with, he went right in and atacked his opponents directly, physicaly, not there positions, that is usualy a sign that you are on the wrong side.

and Sadam Husain won every election he held with like a 99.9% margen (wich was coincedentaly followed with a 0.1% drop in the population). if you think his election was even as legitimate as Bush's, then you need to reexamine your position.
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Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
He's not the same as Bush, honestly, I believe half of that are simply lies. The people voted on him twice, he has the support of the majority of the people and its far too easy for the opposition to scream that they're being oppressed.

Well, when 3.5 million of them are on a political blacklist and others are on the verge of being cracked down on, who can blame them?  Or should they just stop *****ing about it and tolerate the lies of a man who deceived the 60% majority and plans on pissing on every political right of Western democracy?

"Will of the majority" doesn't do jack to prevent a politician from doing this sort of **** once he's elected and takes measures like these to ensure his power.  Free elections and the political rights to assembly and protest do, and Hugo Chavez is taking every means necessary to ensure that neither of these are possible.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline Sarafan

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
This is ridiculous, whats next? He's the next Hitler, Stalin? He doesnt control the media and its not downright arresting anyone who bad mouths him, the people who stand to lose the most from what he's done are the ones who control it.

well the thing with Rictor is he beleives so much in self determination he will even defend it when people determine not to allow self determination for themselves anymore.

actualy Sarafan, he controles the TV and such now, well he'll put anyone who badmouth's him inn jail, that's the big reason why I didn't like him to begin with, he went right in and atacked his opponents directly, physicaly, not there positions, that is usualy a sign that you are on the wrong side.

and Sadam Husain won every election he held with like a 99.9% margen (wich was coincedentaly followed with a 0.1% drop in the population). if you think his election was even as legitimate as Bush's, then you need to reexamine your position.

I dont need to, its was far more legitimate than Saddam's or Bush's.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
he has placed laws on the books were anyone who "slanders" a "public official" can get 40 years in jail.
FACT.

the "fascists" in power before seemed to manage without jailing people for criticizing the government.

"its was far more legitimate than Saddam's or Bush's."

ok, you can say that and I can say "nuh uh"
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Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
This is ridiculous, whats next? He's the next Hitler, Stalin? He doesnt control the media and its not downright arresting anyone who bad mouths him, the people who stand to lose the most from what he's done are the ones who control it.

well the thing with Rictor is he beleives so much in self determination he will even defend it when people determine not to allow self determination for themselves anymore.

actualy Sarafan, he controles the TV and such now, well he'll put anyone who badmouth's him inn jail, that's the big reason why I didn't like him to begin with, he went right in and atacked his opponents directly, physicaly, not there positions, that is usualy a sign that you are on the wrong side.

and Sadam Husain won every election he held with like a 99.9% margen (wich was coincedentaly followed with a 0.1% drop in the population). if you think his election was even as legitimate as Bush's, then you need to reexamine your position.

I dont need to, its was far more legitimate than Saddam's or Bush's.

Both Bush elections had televised debates.  When Manuel Rosales, Chavez's opponent, demanded a debate, Chavez told him to **** off and said essentially that he doesn't have time to debate with someone "of a fifth-grade intelligence." 

Chavez's control of the media essentially allowed him to dominate the airwaves for most of the election, while both Bush elections allowed for comparatively fair campaigning by the Democrats. 

The only thing that makes the US election even remotely illegitimate was Gore v. Bush and the tally fraud allegations in both elections.  Chavez didn't even give his opponent time of day, and bullied government workers and other voters into voting for him.

I never said he was the next Stalin or Hitler, but the way he's going, he might very well be.  Political blacklists and suppression of political rights doesn't exactly make you Marcus Aurelius, does it?
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
This is ridiculous, whats next? He's the next Hitler, Stalin? He doesnt control the media and its not downright arresting anyone who bad mouths him, the people who stand to lose the most from what he's done are the ones who control it.

well the thing with Rictor is he beleives so much in self determination he will even defend it when people determine not to allow self determination for themselves anymore.

actualy Sarafan, he controles the TV and such now, well he'll put anyone who badmouth's him inn jail, that's the big reason why I didn't like him to begin with, he went right in and atacked his opponents directly, physicaly, not there positions, that is usualy a sign that you are on the wrong side.

and Sadam Husain won every election he held with like a 99.9% margen (wich was coincedentaly followed with a 0.1% drop in the population). if you think his election was even as legitimate as Bush's, then you need to reexamine your position.

I dont need to, its was far more legitimate than Saddam's or Bush's.

Typical rabid anti-Bush statement.

Nomatter what way you spin it, unless your a neofascist, radical socialist, or closet Stalin era communist, this is very bad for the people in that country.

Oh, and everything you said here...
Quote
This is ridiculous, whats next? He's the next Hitler, Stalin? He doesnt control the media and its not downright arresting anyone who bad mouths him, the people who stand to lose the most from what he's done are the ones who control it.

Is wrong. He's trying to control the media, and he's trying to get it to a point where he can arrest anyone who bad mouths him. Just because he's not doing it at this exact second doesn't mean that's not what his end-game is (and it's pretty obvious). And besides, the first statement is incorrect because he's shutting down all opposition broadcasts - thus controlling the media. And the second one is incorrect because of what Bob said.

 

Offline Crazy_Ivan80

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
so, how many years before venezuelans ask western countries to help them rebuild their economy?
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Wow, Hugo Chavez is freaking insane.
"Will of the majority" doesn't do jack to prevent a politician from doing this sort of **** once he's elected and takes measures like these to ensure his power.

Sort of. I'd note however that the possiblity of military coup or popular rebellion always exists. You always rule at the sufferance of the people. How your system of rule works, however, determines the level of suffering they'll endure before they decide to get rid of you.

Democracy normally has the support of smart politicians in part because in a democracy you aren't hung from the nearest lamppost.
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