[Huggybaby]

Most cell phones today are crammed with features, but almost nobody will use a fraction of them, or will take the time to learn.

Apple has crafted a brilliant interface that allows you to actually use the functionality you pay for.

I'm not a shill. I've never used an Apple computer, I've used an iPod once. I had a cell phone for a time, and it REALLY bothered me.

I've been watching the bad interface fiasco for a long time. I mean, typing with your thumbs to send a text message, where each key represents 3 different letters is hardly progress, though lot's of youngsters do it. But youngsters don't seem to have a problem with 128KBps encoded MP3's either.

I don't even like the mouse, I think it stinks. You can't draw with it, you can't sign your name. The touch screen is the wave of the future.

Apple wins again, watch the copycats come out and do it worse. 500 dollars for a wireless computer phone in your pocket, and one that's first to market is not bad at all. Heck, what do blue ray recorders cost, and which is more useful?

Shrink the iPhone down and add voice recognition (it may do that already, I don't know), and you'll have something that even Dick Tracy didn't have.

[kode]

fuglybaby:

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2006/12/15/the-lg-ke850-touchable-chocolate/
only, it's the reverse.

[Taristin]

Apple isnt doing anything new with their iPhone. People just assume that because it's apple, it must be new (because of the bull**** they've spewed in the past). There have been phones with windows on them for ages, but since this one has OSX it's suddenly "revolutionary"? There have been touch screen phones (granted with a stylus, but thats more because of things being cost prohibitive in the past, and lessening up now, more than apple's ingenuity). And as Kode shows, LG (And a slew of other Japanese and Korean market telephones) have had this functionality for a while.

Apple just took something, put it in white plastic, stole 2 copyright protected names, and told you that its the best thing since fried chicken, and a lot of you bought it hook line and sinker.

[Huggybaby]

It goes beyond just a touch screen. It knows whether it's held horizontally or vertically, it knows if it's near your face so the screen will shut off... The Koreans and the Japanese have yet to prove they know much about making truly usable interfaces. Just because two items look similar doesn't mean they work the same. You guys have never used the iPod but it sucks. Meh.

People just assume that because it's apple, it must be new

And you assume because it's Apple that it sucks. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

And thanks for the insult. Distorting my "name" and bashing Apple without addressing one of my points really makes a clever and convincing argument. You've conceded.

[aldo_14]

The Koreans and the Japanese have yet to prove they know much about making truly usable interfaces.

That's a bit of a ridiculous (and broad) statement to make.

[Huggybaby]

You insult me, yet you're too lazy to make an argument.  : Why don't you back up your assertion with some facts?

The orientals cram as many features into their products as possible, and they use as few buttons as possible, because specs look good on a sales sheet and buttons are very expensive to manufacture.

Yes, I've been in manufacturing. I've worked for Samsung and Matsu****a (Panasonic) for many years.

Top of the line European units generally use more buttons, so that each button corresponds to one function. Compare one excellent example, say, the Grundig satellit 800 to any comparable Asian designed radio.
http://www.heartlandamerica.com/browse/item.asp?PIN=10164&#

Of course they're larger and cost more. Each approach has its pluses and minuses. And there is a general trend toward less buttons due to the cost.

Nintendo's Wii is a wonderful exception, but they didn't reduce buttons by making existing ones multifunctional.

If you have some facts aside from your attacks let's hear them. Personally I don't care who makes it as long as it's designed for ease of use.

[Taristin]

You insult me, yet you're too lazy to make an argument.  : Why don't you back up your assertion with some facts?

Kode insulted you. Stop confusing people with vastly different names. The entire internet didnt call you a name. Kode did.

The orientals cram as many features into their products as possible, and they use as few buttons as possible, because specs look good on a sales sheet and buttons are very expensive to manufacture.

Oriental is a borderline racist term these days. Id restrict my usage if I were you.
Also; that is a vast overgeneralization.
The trend in asia, indeed, is smaller, and more efficient. But not because of sales sheets. Because smaller and more functional with less resource is the trend of the future, and the way that the world will have to shift anyway with our depleting resources. Its always been "how to do more with less" and the west is falling behind on that regard. *cough*chevy*cough*

Yes, I've been in manufacturing. I've worked for Samsung and Matsu****a (Panasonic) for many years.

Top of the line European units generally use more buttons, so that each button corresponds to one function. Compare one excellent example, say, the Grundig satellit 800 to any comparable Asian designed radio.
http://www.heartlandamerica.com/browse/item.asp?PIN=10164&#

Of course they're larger and cost more. Each approach has its pluses and minuses. And there is a general trend toward less buttons due to the cost.

Nintendo's Wii is a wonderful exception, but they didn't reduce buttons by making existing ones multifunctional.

If you have some facts aside from your attacks let's hear them. Personally I don't care who makes it as long as it's designed for ease of use.

Is it less buttons for less cost, or is it less buttons, because having 47 buttons on a phone is just damned confusing, and pointless?

And again.... can you not distinguish between Kode and the entire rest of the internet? Yes, I dislike Apple, but predominantly because of their "revolutionary" products, which are not much different than existing products on the market, but yet are somehow the "first" to do things that have been done for months before it.

[fsi.scsi]

those crazy orientals.. always churning out efficient but low profile products

DOWN WITH APPLE! Google Fone will be the next hot trend

[kode]

You insult me, yet you're too lazy to make an argument.  : Why don't you back up your assertion with some facts?

don't think too much of yourself, I misread it.

and what'd you have instead of t9 on phones? some graffiti equiv.? I pass on that without a stylus. come to think of it, there's something called smart phones already out. I am perplexed.

[Unknown Target]

Towards HuggyBaby: Ever since you got here I've been finding myself liking you less and less. If you respond to that, please make sure you use my name, and don't get me confused with someone else.

The orientals cram as many features into their products as possible, and they use as few buttons as possible, because specs look good on a sales sheet and buttons are very expensive to manufacture.

That's A) borderline racist, B) a sweeping generalization, and C) in the case of the last part, dead wrong. Manufacturers are using less buttons nowadays because that's what people want - slick using devices that are stylized and "futuristic" to use.

Yes, I've been in manufacturing. I've worked for Samsung and Matsu****a (Panasonic) for many years.

Yay?

Top of the line European units generally use more buttons, so that each button corresponds to one function. Compare one excellent example, say, the Grundig satellit 800 to any comparable Asian designed radio.
http://www.heartlandamerica.com/browse/item.asp?PIN=10164&#

Of course they're larger and cost more. Each approach has its pluses and minuses. And there is a general trend toward less buttons due to the cost.

Also, not true. Witness GPS systems manufactured by European companies.

If you have some facts aside from your attacks let's hear them. Personally I don't care who makes it as long as it's designed for ease of use.

Please respond to the right person next time.

[Huggybaby]

Since when did the term Oriental become racist? I'm sorry if I missed that development.

Mentioning a bit of my work history was not by way of bragging, it was a simple qualification.

Feel free to pile on guys, I didn't start the flaming. I thought the topic was "Cisco sues Apple over iPhone", I guess it's really "Apple sucks, don't bother to disagree."

Yes, Kode insulted me. I apologize for not giving proper attribution.

[kode]

Yes, Kode insulted me. I apologize for not giving proper attribution.

'cept I didn't.

[Huggybaby]

OK, you said that fugly for Huggy was a mistake, I'll take you at your word.

[aldo_14]

Since when did the term Oriental become racist? I'm sorry if I missed that development.

Mentioning a bit of my work history was not by way of bragging, it was a simple qualification.

Feel free to pile on guys, I didn't start the flaming. I thought the topic was "Cisco sues Apple over iPhone", I guess it's really "Apple sucks, don't bother to disagree."

Yes, Kode insulted me. I apologize for not giving proper attribution.

Oriental is sometimes viewed as being racist as a holdover term from the colonial days of the British empire (etc), originating it does from the latin oriens (meaning rising; i.e. land of the Rising Sun) - although I've heard people of that ethnicity happily use oriental as a term to describe themselves, so I'd say the racism of it is debatable.

In terms of usable Japanese/Korean interfaces, I can take a quick look round my room (with admittedly not a massive amount of handheld electronics) and cite my Samsung (Korea) camera & my Nintendo (Japan) DS & Wii.  The worst interface device I have is probably a creative Zen (America), although reportedly newer versions are far better.  Looking at the Apple iPhone, I can't really see anything stunningly innovative about - it's a nice design, but I don't see anything that's not seen elsewhere.  Of course, I'm not a fan of Apples technical prowess, given the shoddiness of iTunes when it comes to uploading music (I had a brief stint working as a software developer for a digital music company that did uploads for iTunes - offhand the biggest label we did was V2 - and Apple were shockingly inept at the content upload side of things).

[fsi.scsi]

"oriental" devolved, as aldo_14 says, in postrenaissance and colonial europe from simply meaning "easterner" to describe anyone who had squinty eyes, yellow skin, and a tonal language.  (i am not trying to be racist here, I am just echoing the exact words of the colonials - read up on the subject if you don't believe me.)

It's "borderline racist" (when used to describe people)because it lumps together people from different and unique cultures under the single stereotype of "oriental" and the description above.  Plus, during WWII, it was used as a slur against Americans of Japanese descent.  but if you want to use it, it's not that big a deal.  In fact, I'm eating ramen noodles with "oriental" flavoring right now. 

[Huggybaby]

Thank you gentlemen, for your logical, measured responses.

I just read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental a couple of times, and it has some interesting things to say.

I know many derogative terms for Asians (or if you prefer, Easterners), but Oriental is not one of them. At least I've never met a Korean or Japanese or Chinese person who was personally offended. I won't bother telling you where I've lived over there, lest someone again think I'm bragging.

It's my observation that white people (or is it Caucasian now?) enjoy being offended on behalf of others though, it's become somewhat of a national pastime here in the USA.

[fsi.scsi]

It's my observation that white people (or is it Caucasian now?) enjoy being offended on behalf of others though, it's become somewhat of a national pastime here in the USA.

i dunno if you were referring to me, but i aint exactly white. 

Being offended on behalf of others, although a holdout of ivory tower intellectuals, really comes in handy when you are empathizing with someone else.  It also may or may not show that you respect people of other "ethnicities."*  I don't think you really thought that a real, live "oriental" would have immediately responded to your comments on this forum if they indeed were offensive.

Just my two cents.  Let's get off this tangent now and back to the real subject of the thread.  Peace out

*"ethnicity" is just a societal construct, amplified by imperialists to suit their needs.  i can classify everybody in the world into 2 "ethnicities": people who have resistance to malaria (sub-saharan africa) and those who don't (everyone else.)

[Huggybaby]

I dunno if you were referring to me

No, I was only talking about people I know, and see on TV, and read about, where I live. And nobody knows my ethnicity either.

[Deepblue]

The iPhone name is not the only place where Apple is in hot water...

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/01/11/iphone-and-lg-ke850-separated-at-birth/

[Ghostavo]

I don't see how this is "hot water".

Both companies designed mobile phones that would have touch screen and a number of other common features. It's not like they copied each other.

If you ask two companies to design a door, chances are you are going to get two doors.