Author Topic: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims  (Read 15936 times)

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Offline Bobboau

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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
I've seen them used as such many a time.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
I've seen them used as such many a time.

Really?  Where?  I mean, where is Billy Grahams homophobic bile considered to be the opinion of ever person in America or, to more accurately compare to Muslims, every person who goes to church?

 
Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
Quote
Australians are getting tired of this BS. The biggest problem is that muslim society is horrifically backwards and instead of trying to come out of its hell hole, it tries to drag everyone else down with them.

You can't say that about "Muslim" society because "Muslim" societies do not exist.  What you are referring to is the society of immigrant (or otherwise) peoples, who happen to be Muslim.  Think about it: some Christians in Egypt, Ethiopia, and the Levant practice gender segregation and (worse) female circumcision.  Would you term these Christians "representatives" of their faith?

A follow up to my initial remark: Muslims have been fighting and killing each other ever since the Prophet Muhammad died.  They managed to pull themselves together briefly - barring the Shia schism - to form a viable state.  You may or may not have heard Muslims speak of the four "rightly guided" leaders (or caliphs) of this state.  They were called "rightly guided" because they were democratically elected in the aboriginal Arab councils (the shuras) and because they put the principles of Islam - gender equality, tolerance, etc. - above the prejudices of their native culture.  That's right: A lot of the nonsense you see emanating from Muslims today is largely the product of cultural values alien to Islam that unscrupulous bastards processed and fed to the uneducated masses. 
You probably want to know why Muslims "hate women and democracy."  The answer is simple: they don't.  That rubbish was part of the tribal culture of Arabia.  In the Qur'an, Muslims are ordered to see men and women as equals, see the world with an open mind, and build bridges across religions and nationalities.  And for a time, Muslims followed these commandments.  But for the past 1300 years, Muslims have been in a state of decay and rot.  Take a look at the respect accorded to women in the Qur'an - several chapters are named after famous women of history - and take a look at the pronoun variations used when referring to God.

You talked about the Muslim "cleric" that said women without veils are "uncovered meat."  I'm not trying to be an asshole, but there is no clergy in Islam.  Not even in Shia Islam: the Ayatollah is less a clergyman and more a political leader.  Anyway, this man's idiotic statement is representative of the state of Muslims throughout the world.  He has no formal education whatsoever.  I've always personally questioned the Qur'anic basis for "fatwas" and mullahs and such - I've researched it a lot, and concluded that the Qur'an in fact forbids any such injunctions.  This is consistent with the Quranic standpoint on everyone following their own path and their own interpretations, just as long as they obey the five pillars of Islam.  So, we've established that this "cleric" has no authority to project his voice as that of the Muslim or even the Australian Muslim diaspora.  Second, his statement reflects my earlier remark about the influence of native culture on Muslim thought: probably in whatever Indo-Pak village he grew up in, his Quran teacher told him that "women are fields for the sowing of man"* and other such bull****.  He, along with millions of other Muslims, took the lesson to heart and now that he's memorized the Qur'an by rote thinks that he has the authority to pass judgement on any subject that he pleases.  In short, he's not speaking as a Muslim, but rather as a donkey who's full of himself.

So why do Muslims follow and swallow such trash? Beats me, but most Muslims are uneducated and apathetic.  They're even more parochial than the most virulent nationalists that Europe ever produced.  They don't know and don't care, and most wouldn't hesitate to stab their brother in the back if they knew they could earn an extra dollar from it.  Look at the map of the Middle East and read about how it was carved up, and you'll get the general idea.  and before anyone gets on me for my racist attitude, I'm speaking as a member of this horrible community

There was my rant ;) - if anyone has any point they'd like me to elaborate on, I'll be happy to oblige.  As the Qur'an says, faith is incomplete without knowledge.

*A shockingly common expression of ignorance in the Subcontinent
« Last Edit: January 20, 2007, 01:36:56 pm by fsi.scsi »

 
Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
De basic problem of those who have problems with muslims is that they never met one.

Do not judge by the knowledge of others.

 

Offline achtung

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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
De basic problem of those who have problems with muslims is that they never met one.

Do not judge by the knowledge of others.

QFT
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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
De basic problem of those who have problems with muslims is that they never met one.

Do not judge by the knowledge of others.

QFT

QU-EF-whattes?

 
Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
Quoted for Truth.

Alternate form of QFA or "Quoted for Accuracy."

Can also mean "Quit ****ing Around." ;)

 

Offline Harbinger of DOOM

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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
I actually noticed this in a new story about Muslims feeling attacked by the media in Australia, but I think it stands as true most places.  The essential point made was that no other group in the world is identified readily with religion rather than race, ethnicity, nationality (or ancenstral nationality); whereas we'll ('we' being western society in general) usually group people into 'British', or 'American', or 'Chinese', the generic term for any Arab bloke seems to be Muslim, particularly when described in the media.

I find this interesting, and curious as to whether it is the cause or the symptom of what appears to be a growing prejudice.


Lets put some of this into context:

Over the last few years you have gangs of muslim men who rape girls, then get away with it. Then you also have them going to countries like Australia and they critize non-islamic girls for not wearing a veil on the beach, and then you also have that idiot cleric who said that women who did not wear a veil were "uncovered meat".

Australians are getting tired of this BS. The biggest problem is that muslim society is horrifically backwards and instead of trying to come out of its hell hole, it tries to drag everyone else down with them.
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Offline Taristin

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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
Err. No. No it's not truth. It's turning a blind eye to reality and calling every Muslim a hypocrite.
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Offline KappaWing

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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
Perhaps if the individual muslim (or follower of ANY religion) doesent agree with the direction his relgious leaders are taking or the image they protray as a whole, he should dissassociate himself with the label.
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Offline Taristin

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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
With what label? Muslim?

That's the same bad logic as calling all christians bigotted racists because of the minority with the loudest voices.
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Offline KappaWing

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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
I'm not saying the name calling is justified, and i agree that it IS a small minority of muslims creating the stereotype. In an ideal situation, people would understand this. However, since people cannot be changed from their urge to stereotype, it would be in the best intrest of the muslim to change his label a bit. Now i dont think its fair that he has to do it, but hes only making life harder for himself if he doesent.

This is why I usually refer to myself as a broader category of "agnostic" rather than "satanist"
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Offline Scuddie

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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
Does anybody know what society means?  How about generalization?

Figure those out and put them together.  Then you'll know exactly why Kosh hit the nail right on the head.
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Offline Ford Prefect

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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
So it's just an algebra problem? Why didn't anyone tell me this? It all makes sense now.
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Offline Polpolion

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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
Does anybody know what society means?  How about generalization?

Figure those out and put them together.  Then you'll know exactly why Kosh hit the nail right on the head.

Society = group of people of the same culture/ethnicity/beliefs and or live in relatively close proximity to each other.

Generalization = a blanket idea covering every facet of a group of people or assuming everyone in a society is the exactly the same even if there not.





EDIT: woops, you weren't really asking that, were you :nervous:

*looks at title

sorry

 

Offline Scuddie

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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
Congratulations Sizzler, you have gotten both those definitions wrong.  Way to butcher those two words with absolutely inaccurate meanings.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
Perhaps if the individual muslim (or follower of ANY religion) doesent agree with the direction his relgious leaders are taking or the image they protray as a whole, he should dissassociate himself with the label.

"I like your Christ, but not your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."-Gandhi

There is a difference between wearing the label and being what the label professes. Being what the label professes, in a religious sense, almost invariably requires wearing the label in addition to whatever else it needs. Hence the suggestion you make is not possible for anyone who is in fact a devout Muslim. (Or Christian, or whatever.)

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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
This is history repeating itself, thousand years ago (during the crusades), most muslims saw us the same way as the most of us now see them.

 

Offline Janos

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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
Quoted for Truth.

Alternate form of QFA or "Quoted for Accuracy."

Can also mean "Quit ****ing Around." ;)

It's also annoying "postcount++" method of not actually saying anything.
lol wtf

 

Offline Fragrag

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Re: A (brief) thought on Islam / Muslims
Quoted for Truth.

Alternate form of QFA or "Quoted for Accuracy."

Can also mean "Quit ****ing Around." ;)

It's also annoying "postcount++" method of not actually saying anything.

QFT (Someone had to do it)
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