[Mefustae]

I swear to God I'm going to pistol-whip the next guy who says QFT!

[Flipside]

I swear to God I'm going to pistol-whip the next guy who says QFT!

FTW!

[aldo_14]

I swear to God I'm going to pistol-whip the next guy who says QFT!

QF.....oh.....

[IPAndrews]

I'm glad to see the backlash against QFT has started. About bloody time. If you can't be bothered to write a sentence then your post is NWP (not worth posting).

[KappaWing]

"I like your Christ, but not your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."-Gandhi

There is a difference between wearing the label and being what the label professes. Being what the label professes, in a religious sense, almost invariably requires wearing the label in addition to whatever else it needs. Hence the suggestion you make is not possible for anyone who is in fact a devout Muslim. (Or Christian, or whatever.)

Whoops.

First of all id rather you quote my second post, which clarified the first one, but anywiggles:

A label is just a shallow, superficial word that is used to describe (or in society's hands, generalize [used both words in same sentence]) a particular group, or used by a particular group to identify themselves. It is far more important that the person actually beleive their religion than care about their label, because their religion is obviously more deep and profound than the word they use to label it.

[Polpolion]

Congratulations Sizzler, you have gotten both those definitions wrong.  Way to butcher those two words with absolutely inaccurate meanings.

Hmm, I guess your right. Except for the parts that you got wrong. Which is all of it.

It's called paraphrasing.

[aldo_14]

"I like your Christ, but not your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."-Gandhi

There is a difference between wearing the label and being what the label professes. Being what the label professes, in a religious sense, almost invariably requires wearing the label in addition to whatever else it needs. Hence the suggestion you make is not possible for anyone who is in fact a devout Muslim. (Or Christian, or whatever.)

Whoops.

First of all id rather you quote my second post, which clarified the first one, but anywiggles:

A label is just a shallow, superficial word that is used to describe (or in society's hands, generalize [used both words in same sentence]) a particular group, or used by a particular group to identify themselves. It is far more important that the person actually beleive their religion than care about their label, because their religion is obviously more deep and profound than the word they use to label it.

Albeit surely part of faith and belief is the adoption and pride of that 'label' into your identity?  People don't be complain about being labelled but being mislabelled, after all, either by being given the wrong label or that label being corrupted by the wrong meaning.  Plus I'd guess most Christians, Muslims, et al take the position that they have to live 'up' to that adopted label of being a true Christian/Muslim/Xenu-worshipper/etc.

It's hard for me to see how people can retain self-identity without having some way to describe themselves, and that's what a label is (or, rather, should be).  It's important to remember that the people professing to be true Muslims whilst blowing themselves up, or true Christians whilst bombing abortion clinics, would be complete nutters regardless of whether or not they put a label on themselves.

[FSW]

Perhaps if the individual muslim (or follower of ANY religion) doesent agree with the direction his relgious leaders are taking or the image they protray as a whole, he should dissassociate himself with the label.

Despite thinking about your statement for a few minutes, I am still at a loss. Please explain to me how this would work, and why it is a good idea.
I may have misinterpreted your post, but it seems that you are proposing that muslims should stop calling themselves muslims, merely to satisfy those non-muslims that have a misinformed stereotype of the religion. Surely, if a muslim doesn't like the image of Islam, then to him/her, the religion itself is not the problem - the people doing the labelling are. Why would they dissociate from a religion, which they believe is correct, rather than educating non-muslim westerners, whom they believe are wrong? For muslims to abandon their religion (at least, for this reason) would be to accept that the bigots are right, and buckling to their wishes, rather than tackling the actual problems, which are ignorance, bigotry and misinformation. If we stand by and let such things happen to Islam, it will happen to any other minority group. Before long, everyone remaining will be blond-haired and blue-eyed.

As for the other part of your proposal; almost no religious 'leaders' are unanimously followed. They can't really 'take' a whole religion anywhere, only the people that follow them. People who disagree strongly and stubbornly over politics will differentiate between each other, rather than leaving the religion (a way of life to some) altogether. People do this - this is why, for example, there are 'Catholics' and 'Protestants', rather than just 'Christians'.

[KappaWing]

I give up, I cant say anything in here without it being totally mistinterpreted.

[Harbinger of DOOM]

I swear to God I'm going to pistol-whip the next guy who says QFT!

QFT QFT QFT!!!!!!!

[IceFire]

Here's the problem...Arabs, Asians, Indians, Europeans...whoever you are...you go into a country and you play by that countries rules and social customs.  You do not go into someone else's country and isolate yourself off in a small little corner and lash out at whatever offends your countries sensibilities.  Particularly when the country in question is a well established and stable one.  From what I've heard in the media about Australia and what has been said about the "problems" they have been having with specific groups of Muslims in the country I'm pretty much saying right on.  I'm not sure if I have the whole picture but that one religious leader who is insulting western women for not covering up, calling them "meat", and other examples of that sort of stuff is just too far.  You're in a western style country (technically it isn't in the west) and its our general culture in European nations not to cover things up so much. We're still pretty uptight about things I think...but thats our way.  Its not unjust...it doesn't unduly harm anyone and most western countries seem to bend over backwards as much as possible to accommodate people and they scream ever louder that they are being wronged.

It makes me sad because I want to espouse equal opportunities wherever possible but these people want want want and don't care where they are living.  This type of behavior offends me.  Doesn't matter who you are, where your from, or anything.  Be fair.

[Unknown Target]

I swear to God I'm going to pistol-whip the next guy who says QFT!

Hey Farva, what's that place you like to go to? The one with all the goofy **** on the walls?

[FSW]

I'm not sure if I have the whole picture but that one religious leader who is insulting western women for not covering up, calling them "meat", and other examples of that sort of stuff is just too far.  You're in a western style country (technically it isn't in the west) and its our general culture in European nations not to cover things up so much.
...
It makes me sad because I want to espouse equal opportunities wherever possible but these people want want want and don't care where they are living.  This type of behavior offends me.  Doesn't matter who you are, where your from, or anything.  Be fair.

I agree with this. He has a right to criticise western culture and preach his religion if he wants to, thanks to freedom of speech, but name-calling serves no use whatsoever.
Such comments may be borne out of frustration - some people, who happen to be westerners, throw a lot of undue insults at Islam too, and he may feel that he is responding in kind. It's a cycle.

It is sad to see people judging entire communities due to the words of a few vocal maniacs. The injustice works both ways.

[Kosh]

I'm not sure if I have the whole picture but that one religious leader who is insulting western women for not covering up, calling them "meat", and other examples of that sort of stuff is just too far.  You're in a western style country (technically it isn't in the west) and its our general culture in European nations not to cover things up so much.
...
It makes me sad because I want to espouse equal opportunities wherever possible but these people want want want and don't care where they are living.  This type of behavior offends me.  Doesn't matter who you are, where your from, or anything.  Be fair.

I agree with this. He has a right to criticise western culture and preach his religion if he wants to, thanks to freedom of speech, but name-calling serves no use whatsoever.
Such comments may be borne out of frustration - some people, who happen to be westerners, throw a lot of undue insults at Islam too, and he may feel that he is responding in kind. It's a cycle.

It is sad to see people judging entire communities due to the words of a few vocal maniacs. The injustice works both ways.

Keep in mind the muslim community goes to great lengths to segregate themselves in western countries. They need to learn how to live in the 21st century.

[aldo_14]

Keep in mind some of the muslim community goes to great lengths to segregate themselves in western countries. They need to learn how to live in the 21st century.

What were we saying about generalisation, again?

[NGTM-1R]

Keep in mind the muslim community goes to great lengths to segregate themselves in western countries. They need to learn how to live in the 21st century.

You have odd Muslims.

[Nuclear1]

Keep in mind the muslim community goes to great lengths to segregate themselves in western countries. They need to learn how to live in the 21st century.

I'd love to see proof of this.  Dearborn, for certain, is most definitely not like this. 

Note:  the fringe fundamentalist, ultraconservative elements of Islam do not represent the entire Muslim community.

[IceFire]

I'm not sure if I have the whole picture but that one religious leader who is insulting western women for not covering up, calling them "meat", and other examples of that sort of stuff is just too far.  You're in a western style country (technically it isn't in the west) and its our general culture in European nations not to cover things up so much.
...
It makes me sad because I want to espouse equal opportunities wherever possible but these people want want want and don't care where they are living.  This type of behavior offends me.  Doesn't matter who you are, where your from, or anything.  Be fair.

I agree with this. He has a right to criticise western culture and preach his religion if he wants to, thanks to freedom of speech, but name-calling serves no use whatsoever.
Such comments may be borne out of frustration - some people, who happen to be westerners, throw a lot of undue insults at Islam too, and he may feel that he is responding in kind. It's a cycle.

It is sad to see people judging entire communities due to the words of a few vocal maniacs. The injustice works both ways.

Oh indeed..."westerners" in general are throwing a fair bit of flak at Islam too.  They are supposed to be the latest villain that the western powers must unite against to defeat.  Last time it was the Soviets and before that the Nazi's and before that the Soviets.  Gotta keep the military industrial complex going after all...

I think there is a hidden fear that isn't vocalized much...and its quite similar to the McCarthyist period...where people think that Islam is trying to take over the world in some sort of religious revolution.  It doesn't help when some of the extremists are saying that exact thing.  This is probably worse than the 1950s because we're also doing parts of the 1960s all over again too.  Its all sort of compressed down into a few years.

I'm really hoping that means that in a few years we can get back to the 90's because I seem to remember that time as being pretty good overall.

[KappaWing]

It's not just the extremists, look what the Muslims as a whole are doing to France.

[aldo_14]

It's not just the extremists, look what the Muslims as a whole are doing to France.

What are they doing, exactly?

(NB: equating the Paris riots as 'what the Muslims are doing to France' is about as sensible as equating the Rodney King riots as 'what the blacks are doing to America')