Author Topic: After Capella.......  (Read 7235 times)

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Offline KappaWing

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Well there's one more possibility that Shivans will never return and they've just gone somewhere and we won't see them anymore. However FreeSpace universe is too beautiful to just let them shade off and we'll simply forget about them. Even if they'll disappear, FS3 will surely reveal secrets of who are they and what happened to them, even if not from them personally then from ancient ruins or something like that. Anyway I doubt anything serious would happen in next 15 years after Capella (rebelion, another Shivan invasion or anything like that). Still I think there's 66% probability that Shivans will return, but what are they motives we can only guess.

 :snipe:

Anyways, the Shivans can use nearly nonexistant unstable nodes (Ross128 anyone?) So they may barge into GTVA space or Sol whenever they feel like it or manage to use an unstable node IMO. Perhaps they used a supernova-warp to enter Ross 128 in the first place.
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Offline Snail

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Perhaps they used a supernova-warp to enter Ross 128 in the first place.

Hmm... That's a great idea. :)

 

Offline Qwer

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KappaWing - whoops, I meant FS3 would. :p Anyway Shivans appeared not only in Ross 128, but also in Betelgeuse, Ikeya and Regulus. Also notice that Lucifer appeared first in Ross 128 and then moved to Ikeya.
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Offline Bob-san

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ehm about how close the sathanas were... iirc...

The engines would only push them toward the sun. Do they have anti-grav devices onboard the Sath? Even if they kept the ship from bring pulled in, what keeps the actual shivans from becoming smashed bugs on the front of the Sath? They must be able to tolerate extreme gravity AND stay strong in zero-gravity. If you put a man in space for a month, he'd barely be able to walk on Earth... the Shivans must have either adapted their exoskeleton or developed good anti-grav tech to keep them from smashing like bugs!!
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Offline Snail

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The engines would only push them toward the sun. Do they have anti-grav devices onboard the Sath? Even if they kept the ship from bring pulled in, what keeps the actual shivans from becoming smashed bugs on the front of the Sath? They must be able to tolerate extreme gravity AND stay strong in zero-gravity. If you put a man in space for a month, he'd barely be able to walk on Earth... the Shivans must have either adapted their exoskeleton or developed good anti-grav tech to keep them from smashing like bugs!!

Shivans, according to tech are completely developed in Zero-G.

 

Offline Ghostavo

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ehm about how close the sathanas were... iirc...

The engines would only push them toward the sun. Do they have anti-grav devices onboard the Sath? Even if they kept the ship from bring pulled in, what keeps the actual shivans from becoming smashed bugs on the front of the Sath? They must be able to tolerate extreme gravity AND stay strong in zero-gravity. If you put a man in space for a month, he'd barely be able to walk on Earth... the Shivans must have either adapted their exoskeleton or developed good anti-grav tech to keep them from smashing like bugs!!

But the reason a man is "barely able to walk on earth" after being in space for very long (currect record is 366 days by Vladimir Titov and Musa Manarov) is because of the lack of calcium fixation on their bones and muscle atrophication. Shivans don't have problems with the first because of their exoskeleton I believe, and the second is debatable but even current astronauts can prevent most of it with exercise.
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Offline General Battuta

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ehm about how close the sathanas were... iirc...

The engines would only push them toward the sun. Do they have anti-grav devices onboard the Sath? Even if they kept the ship from bring pulled in, what keeps the actual shivans from becoming smashed bugs on the front of the Sath? They must be able to tolerate extreme gravity AND stay strong in zero-gravity. If you put a man in space for a month, he'd barely be able to walk on Earth... the Shivans must have either adapted their exoskeleton or developed good anti-grav tech to keep them from smashing like bugs!!

The Saths were a huge distance away from the Capella sun.  Look at how small that thing is in the cinematics...if they were even as close as Mercury is to Sol, Capella would fill the whole sky.

And you're misunderstanding the nature of gravity, besides.  As long as they have engines, the Saths can maintain a stable orbit.  The Shivans will experience no gravity at all. 

 

Offline KappaWing

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I was always under impression that the Sathani were orbiting Capella, and that they were being treated like asteroids in an asteroid belt.
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Offline IceFire

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Well there's one more possibility that Shivans will never return and they've just gone somewhere and we won't see them anymore. However FreeSpace universe is too beautiful to just let them shade off and we'll simply forget about them. Even if they'll disappear, FS3 will surely reveal secrets of who are they and what happened to them, even if not from them personally then from ancient ruins or something like that. Anyway I doubt anything serious would happen in next 15 years after Capella (rebelion, another Shivan invasion or anything like that). Still I think there's 66% probability that Shivans will return, but what are they motives we can only guess.

 :snipe:

Anyways, the Shivans can use nearly nonexistant unstable nodes (Ross128 anyone?) So they may barge into GTVA space or Sol whenever they feel like it or manage to use an unstable node IMO. Perhaps they used a supernova-warp to enter Ross 128 in the first place.
The only problem with that is that if they did "superjump" using Capella then in Ross128 they should have arrived all at once and with basically all of their ships but we never saw that happen.  I would suspect that if the entire Shivan fleet jumped into Ross128 then someone would have noticed.  We seem to see that Lt. Ash was jumped by more of a scouting party attached to the Lucifer.

My guess is that in that particular instance that there are unstable and uncharted jump nodes in most or all star systems in the FreeSpace universe and that the Shivans, being adept at subspace already, were using those nodes.
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Offline KappaWing

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Ah, good point IceFire.  :nod:
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Offline Agent_Koopa

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There was despair and horror and famine, until Derelict, after which Alpha 2 led the colonization of Tau Sigma through the judicious and fair use of duct tape. 

People are terrified by rumors of gigantic Shivan warships with names like 'Gigas' and 'Gargant', but oddly, they just don't show up.  And no one can quite seem to figure out what they look like, either. 

And remember that oddly named Vasudan transport in 'Apocalypse'?  The Ptah-Nu?  That guy (yes, THAT GUY) is the next Vasudan Emperor.  I swear.  Seriously. 

You're right. To prevent uprising, we should change official designations for Shivan doomsday ships to something like 'SJ Fluffykins'.

Oh, and, on my first playthrough...
Quote from: GTVA Command
The Shivans destroyed the Ptah-Nu!
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Offline MarkN

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You're right. To prevent uprising, we should change official designations for Shivan doomsday ships to something like 'SJ Fluffykins'.

Now that is scary.

 
I think that, based on the 'Hive theory' for shivans, there might be a 'queen' or parasite race that controls them. and, thinking along the lines of even human stuff, there would probobly be some odd ones out, and, thinking along the lines that the GTVA now has ETAK, and that not all shivans necessarily would want to annailate everything, well, ..................  :pimp:
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Offline aldo_14

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Offline Charismatic

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Big reply. My thoughts and comments on various replys, opinions throughout this thread.

I think that, based on the 'Hive theory' for shivans, there might be a 'queen' or parasite race that controls them. and, thinking along the lines of even human stuff, there would probobly be some odd ones out, and, thinking along the lines that the GTVA now has ETAK, and that not all shivans necessarily would want to annailate everything, well, ..................  :pimp:
ETAK proves Shivans can communicate, and much more, agree to a 'meet'\pickup. If they only heard telepathicaly from a queen shivan, communication would be impossible. I do not think a queen bee theory is plauasable. The brute force is more likely.
The engines would only push them toward the sun. Do they have anti-grav devices onboard the Sath? Even if they kept the ship from bring pulled in, what keeps the actual shivans from becoming smashed bugs on the front of the Sath? They must be able to tolerate extreme gravity AND stay strong in zero-gravity. If you put a man in space for a month, he'd barely be able to walk on Earth... the Shivans must have either adapted their exoskeleton or developed good anti-grav tech to keep them from smashing like bugs!!

Shivans, according to tech are completely developed in Zero-G.
Yeah, the shivans were born on some messed up planet, that messed up their minds and made them want to go crazy and kill everyone. (j\k)

KappaWing - whoops, I meant FS3 would. :p Anyway Shivans appeared not only in Ross 128, but also in Betelgeuse, Ikeya and Regulus. Also notice that Lucifer appeared first in Ross 128 and then moved to Ikeya.
They had a plan, a stratagy, we just need to figure it out. I bet :V: developed a, atleast, tenitive stragaty, or way of thinking that the shivans followed. I bet there is some sort of pattern, or 'commen sence' to their attacks.

Well there's one more possibility that Shivans will never return and they've just gone somewhere and we won't see them anymore. Still I think there's 66% probability that Shivans will return, but what are they motives we can only guess.
Shivans will be seen. Not right away, maby, but we will see them. But, the extent is unsure. I suspect they wont be at a full war agienst us again, atleast right away. They will be seen dealing with, whatever it is tehy are dealing with. We will learn more about the big 'problem' in the time before GTVA engages Shivans again.

Well, they did get out when the GTVA closed the portal, if by that you mean the Knossos.

And no, they couldn't get out of Capella with the nodes sealed, but even GTVA Command isn't stupid enough to think that means they won't return.  The Shivans can make jumps where they really have no right to. 
It is a shame tho. Think of what command had to decide. The fate of, what, 3 perfectly good planets? Just to make the choice would be devistating. Alot of people died, and were trapped in that system. The star destoryed all 3 planets, right?

True that...but the Shivans have so much power in their hands that genocide could be construed as an accident like slipping on some grass or sneezing.
True. Brute force.

Whatever the case...subspace is the key.  Its a pattern...Shivans, their attachment to subspace, the star going nova, subspace and gravity wells and their interaction.

The Great War seemed to be something different than the second time around.  The Great War was all about the Shivans targeting and destroying the Terrans and Vasudans.  And then they ignored them the second time.  Its possible that the Sathanas fleet had a different agenda than the Lucifer lead one.  Not to imply rival factions...just different overall goals.
What's interesting, is the timimg. We had this hudge war, alot of losses. They sent in a single Sathanis to keep us occupied (those cruel bastards). Then, twards the end, they continue to ignore us and mass Sathi to the Capella node. Sathi sent near us, to capella to deal with some problem. But, notice this. In the SOC mission. Is it just me, or were Sathi seemingly escorted? The nodes, the Sathi with there green glowy abiltiy. Maby some sort of scientific vessle, or a ship geared specifilcy for the star purpose.
The shivan comm nodes, a homing beacon? There were 3 correct? Maby to Triangulate a landing point? But the Sathi had badass frontal beam cannons, also used for frontal assults. They have crap defences in their rear. Terran vessles have decent backside defences.

loool :lol:.

seriously though, it could be a massive subspace portal to the Shivan homeworld or a warning to the GTVA not to mess around with the Shivans, or even to completly cut the Shivans off frm the GTVA
Hell, do you really think shivans still Live on a planet? They probably left it a while back. Their mobalized. They dont mass in one place, they go in groups and spread out.
Why would they jump to their HW anyway? Our forces to go side bases, not straight home, after a battle or whatever. And even less likely they want to cut themselves off from us. Why would they want to? We don't bother them that much, they only send 1 sathi at us.

Meh almost done, il finish later, g2g to class.

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Offline MP-Ryan

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Interesting theories.  I have some too, but first a little food for thought:

I don't think Voilition/Interplay planned on a sequel to FreeSpace when they developed its storyline.

*ducks and covers*

I know Voilition has god-like status around here, but there are too many continuity errors between FS1 and FS2 that don't make logical sense.  I get the feeling FS2 was written separately, and then they adapted the problematic elements as well as possible.  FS2, by the way, is my preferred of the two storylines if only because its more detailed.  Let's look at this in more detail.

1.  As several people pointed out, the Shivans popped out of nowhere in FS1, but appeared through the Knossos in FS2.  Now, we never find out where exactly they came from in Ross 128.  We do get told the Shivans can use less stable jump nodes, but we are also told that they rely on jump nodes.  So, we forget the idea of a non-node jump.  Several possibilities for Ross 128 remain, then:  A.  The Shivans hopped in using an unstable and uncharted node which nobody bothers to mention in FS2; B.  The Shivans were waiting, dormant, in Ross 128 for millenia; C.  The Shivans were waiting dormant in subspace near/in Ross 128 for millenia.  It really bothered me how nobody cleared up their arrival in Ross 128 - mostly that there aren't any theories floating around in FS2.

2.  Behaviour:  It's like we're dealing with a totally different enemy in each game.  Their objectives are very different.  So it begs the question:  what changed?  Again, we have no hints.  I tend to think the simplistic apocalyptic themes of FS1 were inconvenient for the more in-depth story brought about in FS2, so it was easier to ignore them rather than actually deal with them.  And they got away with it.

3.  The Shivans themselves:  OK, so in FS1 we can't figure out much about the Shivans because we can't capture them.  But in FS2 we have captured Shivan ships, and some xenobiology, but we can't decide if the exoskeleton is artificial or part of the organism?  Please.  Granted I'm reading more into this, but modern biology of present day today could make that distinguishment.

OK, enough nitpicking Voilition.

My theory on the Shivans:  They're a biological weapon construction of another race which uses them for expansion, exploration, and warfare.  In fact, the idea of Shivans as controlled by another species (or even as a subset of the controlling species) is the only one I consider viable, given their bizarre actions and revision of goals.  I think the Shivans in Ross 128 were waiting and dormant, having passed through the Ancients Knossos thousands of year beforehand.  The Juggernauts are a new fleet, with entirely different objectives.  And I'm planning on exploring this further if I ever finish writing my own campaign :)
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Offline KappaWing

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Maybe a few surviving Ancients have found out a way to control the Shivans?
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Offline AlphaOne

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KW that is really scary you know that??

That would sugest a whole conspiracy of the surviving ancients to wipe out the new races or what is left of them, asuming there are any other ones left except for the vasudans and terrans, in order to restorew theyr long lost empire!
Die shivan die!!
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Offline KappaWing

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Exactly, the "Almost Destroyed" become the "Destroyers". The Ancients could do this too, even with very small remaining numbers. Lets say the Ancients found a way to break into the Shivan hive mind and found out how to alter their thoughts. They could have the Shivans destroy each other, but why destroy the Shivans when you can use them to kill others?
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Offline Agent_Koopa

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Come on, KappaWing, you're not in Zelda.
Interestingly enough, this signature is none of the following:
A witty remark on whatever sad state of affairs the world may or may not be in
A series of localized forum in-jokes
A clever and self-referential comment on the nature of signatures themselves.

Hobo Queens are Crowned, but Hobo Kings are Found.