[FUBAR-BDHR]

I've been working on a mission.  Added a few seraphim bombers, 4 actually.  Now it seems like the main beams on the Hatshepsut are attacking the bombers and not the other caps.  I'm not talking anti-fighter beams I mean the BVas beam.  I haven't been able to capture a screen shot yet to confirm it.  Anyone else notice this activity?

[Wanderer]

It's a known issue with standard game settings, also known as 'beam jamming'. That is if all the beams are freed and the ai_profiles.tbl ('huge' weapons issue) is not in use then by firing weapons with bomb tag into the firing arc of the capship beam causes the beam to prioritize bombs above other targets.

You have to force the beams to target other capships.

[CP5670]

I've heard something about this before with the Seraphim in particular. I remember someone saying that the Seraphim is actually big enough to be targeted directly by the anti-capital beams, but it could be wrong as I don't know how the game would determine that.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Do they attack the bombs, bombers or both?  Is it all types of bombs and bombers?  How about trebs?  I leave the bombers out it's too easy even on insane.  Put the bombers in and can't even beat it on medium because the beams don't fire at what they are supposed to.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

If it's just going after the bombers I could always beem protect them.  Would that work or is it an issue no matter what?  Talk about haveing a bad FRED night.

[Wanderer]

It targets the bombs (not bombers) but the game often tends to miss when firing beams it may well hit the bombers that fly directly behind the first wave of bombs.

And no. Beam-protecting bombers shouldnt help at all with this issue.

[karajorma]

ship-turret-target-order
-Name of Ship
-Ships
-Asteroids
-Bombs

Should deal with the problem.

[DarkShadow-]

I remember someone saying that the Seraphim is actually big enough to be targeted directly by the anti-capital beams, but it could be wrong as I don't know how the game would determine that.

Just for the facts: The size of a ship is completely unimportant, the tags decide how the AI handles the ship. An Icanus with fighter-tag wouldn't be attack by huge beams (although I don't know if an Icanus with fighter tag would work ^^). Karajorma already gave a good solution (didn't even now such an SEXP, script, whatever) existed.

Nevertheless, if you don't want the ships to target any bombs with the big guns ("huge") you should change it in ai_profiles.tbl (as already mentioned). Search for something like "Huge turrets target bombs" and set it to "NO".

I prefer this way because I don't see any sense in huge turrets attacking bombs, sometimes this completely changes mission balancing (remember the high damage and fire wait of those weapons).

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Well the only problem with ship-turret-target-order is it doesn't exist in retail.  I'm trying to make the missions so they will work with retail so I'm using retail FRED2  to create the missions.  When I have that done then I'll  go back and make an even better version (possibly modded) using  FRED2_Open.  Is there a list of which weapons/ships huge beams will/won't target?  I mean looking at the weapons table even trebs are flaged huge.  I don't think I've ever been able to target a treb though.  Also do the beams target the bombers, the bombs, both, or only bombers carrying bombs?

[phreak]

the solution is not to use beam-free-all on anti-capital ship beams and script battles using beam-fire.  Normally i'd beam-free AAA beams and script the battle.  You have more control over the mission that way, but its more work.

As said before, capitals will freak out and use every possible weapon against bombs, even if it means using an anti-capital ship beam and vaporizing the bomber wing that launched it.  It really helps if you're defending, but sucks if you're attacking.

http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=598

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Very intersting thread.  I can definately see how fast it changes the balance.  4 bombers from too easy to almost impossible.  Looks like Cet was just Drunk enough to make use of the bug and I was just Drunk enough to stumble into it from the other direction.  Got to watch out for us Drunks   

Ok anyone have the answer to if the beams target trebs and stilettos?  I could just add more bombers and have them try to disarm if they don't target them.  That would probably make it hard enough without the total overkill.

[Wanderer]

AI is not targeting or shooting at weapons with "huge" flag.

Its targeting and shooting at weapons with "Bomb" flag.

This means that on basic retail setting no weapon will ever target Trebuchet, but all weapons will target (if freed) Stilettos.

IF the ai_profiles.tbl (this is for FS Open only) table option that affects the targeting is in use then weapons with "huge" flag - like capship mounted Trebuchets, large beam weapons, even other bombs - will not be targeted or fired at weapons with "bomb" flag.


For retail missions this means that capship beam duels have to be scripted if any bombers (or to be more accurate, weapons with "bomb" flag) are present in the mission.

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Hmm according to the tables in Wiki stilettos don't have the bomb flag.  Are there other flags as well as bombs that they will attack.  For example stilettos say "puncture". 

[karajorma]

$Flags:                                ( "Huge" "Puncture" "player allowed"                          ;;      Puncture = punches through armor to subsystem.
                                       "Bomb" )                                       ;; Bomb = can be targeted       

It has it. The formatting is just crazy.

[Wanderer]

Actually it seems like this page http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Weapon_Comparison_%28FS2%29 had another error in it...

EDIT: There... fixed

[FUBAR-BDHR]

Even finding bugs in the Wiki now.   

Ok looks like uping the bomber count and arming with trebs it is then.  At least for the retail version.  I'll make a note of this in case I ever get around to a FS2_Open only version.

BTW:  While were on the Wiki subject is the ship comparison table out there somewhere?  I haven't found it yet.

[ShivanSpS]

yeah i noticed this too when testing Art of war, i was flying in a Myrmidon and then i launch 2 helios and i get killed by Anti-worships beams LOL!!!!   but i think as you say here, they target the bombs.

[Turey]

Anti-worships beams

Perhaps your Helios were praying at the time?

[CaptJosh]

*snickers* Or maybe reading from the Book of Armaments?

[Bob-san]

Which verse from the Book of Armaments? I was thinking it would be proper that the bombs say a eulogy instead of reading from the Book of Armaments, after the beams miss and hit the bombers/myrmidons... I could be wrong!