Author Topic: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?  (Read 13996 times)

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
I'd like to see ANY bomber get close to a capital ship with morning stars.  And with their great range, only trebuchets would be effective in response.

 

Offline Mars

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
That sure sounds FUN!  ::)

 

Offline ShivanSpS

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
Actually, the Mentu needs an anti-warship beams... right now, is no even correspond to they actuall tech room desc... maybe a single Svas...

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
I'd like to see ANY bomber get close to a capital ship with morning stars.  And with their great range, only trebuchets would be effective in response.
Which is what I would use to shoot down the turrets...

 
Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
I'd like to see ANY bomber get close to a capital ship with morning stars.  And with their great range, only trebuchets would be effective in response.
Which is what I would use to shoot down the turrets...
Yeah, but trebuchets pretty much make the capital ships laughable to the snubfighters =/

 
Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
I always thought the Aten (FS1 and FS2) was the game's biggest freaking pushover.
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Offline asyikarea51

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Re: Which Capital Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
Speaking of Hecates, anyone remember that crappy and unfinished mission I made? I think I swapped the front beams for something with a little more kick. Only problem would be all that heavy firepower being up front - have to attack using Shivan tactics as opposed to the typical broadside manoeuvre (which is the basic tactic used against Shivan opponents)...

I don't mind upgrading the Orion, but... I dunno. To me, when things start serving for a very, veeeeery long time, it might actually be cheaper to start from scratch with a new design but keep the existing principles of heavy anti-cap firepower. I also feel that somehow in one way or another, the Orion looks out of place in comparison with the FS2 fleet. Like the Hecate, Perseus, Ares, Erinyes, etc... Not sure if I were to include the Aeolus or the Deimos to that though.
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Offline Qwer

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
I think you guys make one fatal mistake: you don't consider teamwork. Situations like "lone-mentu-attacked-by-Rakshasa-and-blown-to-bits" can't happen. Let's consider situation with one GTVA fighter wing+Mentu vs one Shivan fighter wing+Rakshasa. GTVA will win. Why? Because Rakshasa's beams won't do anything to Mentu, the most heavily armored GTVA cruiser. Mentu will eliminate Shivan fighters with GTVA wing's help, then fighters will disarm Rakshasa and slowly put it down. As c914 said "capships for everything are for nothing". 3km universal superdestroyer *will* loose against team of smaller specialised warships. So putting SVas to Aten/Mentu or 100-fighter hangar to Orion MKII (anyway next Orion is VERY hypothetical as technologies will be probably completely merged and next-generation GTVA fleet will be common for both Terrans and Vasudans) isn't good idea. If you don't believe me, we can do little wargames on ICQ/MSN/IRC. ;)

BTW little digression about current non-beam and non-prototype weaponry that could be given to capships:
- Subach/Mekhu - better than standard capship turrets but MS would be much better
- Morning Star - one of the most powerful AF weapons, low energy usage (comparing to flaks or AAAs, however also two times larger usage than Prom S and 18 times more than standard turret but considering old age of standard turrets and incompatibility with modern systems changes things for better) gives it possibility for wide use on all capships, is quite good against shields, has got large range (2000) and, the most important, it deals serious kinetic push, I think almost all GTVA capships should be armed with it (mostly AC and Carrier-oriented) as it's very good in fending off fighters and shooting down bombs
- Akheton SDG - could be good in AC self-defence, but has got large energy usage and much shorter range than Maxim (750)
- Prometheus S - good weapon, 1500m range and less energy usage than Morning Star but becomes obsolete as MS+Maxim duo can do the job better
- Maxim - another very good weapon, VERY long range and large hull damage, altough energy usage even bigger than MS (three times as much as Prom S) note about modern systems applies to it too, weak against shields but MS can do this job, also can be used as AC self-defence
- Kayser - I think it's even worse for capships than Prom S, energy usage as large as MS and shorter range (1500)
- Circe - unnecessary crap with not-so-great shield damage and short range
- Lamprey - as above, could be good for fighter suppression if it had larger range, less energy consumption and EMP effect on impact
- Terran Turret - C.R.A.P, can't do anything to fighters, better against bombs, but it's very old and becomes incompatible with modern systems
- Terran Huge Turret - C.R.A.P, more damage but even less velocity than standard turret making it even more useless against fighters
- Terran Turret Weak - C.R.A.P, nothing different than standard except very few shield damage = even more useless against fighters
- AAA - very large energy usage limiting it to capships only and IMHO should be used only on AF/universal capships, anyway it's powerful due to shield penetrate abilities, overloaded version with 4000m range, rapid fire and damage enough to blow up Seraphim in two shots is the best AF weapon
- Standard Flak - quite powerful weapon, altough without ability of shield penetration and takes more place, it deals more overall damage per second and is better in fighter suppression, also good for AF/universal capships
- Heavy Flak - weaker counterpart of Standard Flak, can be used when Standard flak would take too much place (like in Aeolus with two UltraAAAs)
- Long Range Flak - basically LR version of Heavy Flak, IMHO useless, Maxim has got bigger range
- Rockeye - this could be powerful weapon for capships, rapid fire, long range and seeking ability would make it good weapon for both fighter killing and suppression, in theory it could "spam" and force enemy to either turn back and launch countermeasures or face with lots, lots of rockets
- Tempest - short range = unnecessary crap
- Hornet - like Rockeye good for "spamming", but shorter range and less maneuverability makes it less useful, it's also older and less compatible with modern systems
- Harpoon - like above, only with better maneuverability and better compatibility
- TAG X - gives better accuracy, but it'd be much better to give it to fighters rather than waste space on capship
- Stiletto II - pure AC self-defence, with rapid fire and 5500 range (1500 more than typical beams) it can disarm enemy capship and is more place&energy-efficient than Slash beams leaving more place&energy for other weapons, good for specialised capships (AF cruisers or carriers for example)
- Infyrno - AF weapon with the biggest damage, takes lots of place limiting it to large capships and has short range, however no fighter or bomber can survive when hit by it, also good for disarming capships that will get too close
- Cyclops - C.R.A.P, less range, damage and fire rate than beams, not to mention it can be taken down
- EMP Adv. - short range, but great for anti-bomber defence, good fighter supression weapon.
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Offline Mars

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
Okay, I'm sorry, this is beginning to drive me insane... what is this about the Morning Star being powerful? Will someone please explain? Especially mounted in turrets, the Maxim could take it out at 3 times the range.

It does no shield damage... I can't find the saving grace I keep hearing about.

 

Offline Sarafan

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
I think you guys make one fatal mistake: you don't consider teamwork. Situations like "lone-mentu-attacked-by-Rakshasa-and-blown-to-bits" can't happen. Let's consider situation with one GTVA fighter wing+Mentu vs one Shivan fighter wing+Rakshasa. GTVA will win. Why? Because Rakshasa's beams won't do anything to Mentu, the most heavily armored GTVA cruiser. Mentu will eliminate Shivan fighters with GTVA wing's help, then fighters will disarm Rakshasa and slowly put it down. As c914 said "capships for everything are for nothing". 3km universal superdestroyer *will* loose against team of smaller specialised warships. So putting SVas to Aten/Mentu or 100-fighter hangar to Orion MKII (anyway next Orion is VERY hypothetical as technologies will be probably completely merged and next-generation GTVA fleet will be common for both Terrans and Vasudans) isn't good idea. If you don't believe me, we can do little wargames on ICQ/MSN/IRC. ;)


Of course a Mentu would do that with a fighter wing but they may not be always avaliable so it'll to take care of itself alone, that's why it needs a beam cannon. I really agree that the next ships of the fleet will be using tech from both sides, I really want to see a Terran/Vasudan made destroyer.

 

Offline Mars

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
There will always be something available.

Look at the US Navy, it is rare to never that a Destroyer travels alone, it almost always has a number of other vessels along with it, as well as plane cover.

 

Offline ShivanSpS

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
mmm i will work on "GTVA Fleet weapons upgrade" today and lets see in what finish :P

 

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
GTVA Colossus?
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Offline ShivanSpS

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
hell even the Hipocrates have an Lterslash.... even the Hipocrates can defend herselft from anything big, better than a Mentu....

 

Offline Sarafan

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
There will always be something available.

Look at the US Navy, it is rare to never that a Destroyer travels alone, it almost always has a number of other vessels along with it, as well as plane cover.

Not exactly, with the size of the territory the GTVA has to cover in a system its not always that they could have backup avaliable, even more in a combat situation.

 
Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
Okay, I'm sorry, this is beginning to drive me insane... what is this about the Morning Star being powerful? Will someone please explain? Especially mounted in turrets, the Maxim could take it out at 3 times the range.

It does no shield damage... I can't find the saving grace I keep hearing about.
That's a pretty stupid thing to say since a Maxim would take out anything on current capital ships anyways.

The MS would certainly make it extremely difficult to do a bombing run though, plus it's not really a stretch of imagination to conceive that a capital ship mounted version could have more range.

Just to be clear, have you actually been the target of the MS?

 

Offline Mars

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
Yes, on an Aeolus's turrets, it throws you back by a kilometer or so, and leaves you almost totally undamaged, compared to the Flail, the MS is a worthless piece of **** that happens to throw fighters around, and honestly, if you replaced every turret of a ship with Kaysers, I think would get far more fighter kills in the same amount of time as a ship covered in MSs

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« Last Edit: February 01, 2007, 08:57:39 pm by Mars »

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
And like I've said, just snipe the turrets off the capital ship first, I always use Trebuchets in conjunction with Helios or Cyclops missiles.

 

Offline neoterran

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
I think you guys make one fatal mistake: you don't consider teamwork. Situations like "lone-mentu-attacked-by-Rakshasa-and-blown-to-bits" can't happen. Let's consider situation with one GTVA fighter wing+Mentu vs one Shivan fighter wing+Rakshasa. GTVA will win. Why? Because Rakshasa's beams won't do anything to Mentu, the most heavily armored GTVA cruiser. Mentu will eliminate Shivan fighters with GTVA wing's help, then fighters will disarm Rakshasa and slowly put it down. As c914 said "capships for everything are for nothing". 3km universal superdestroyer *will* loose against team of smaller specialised warships. So putting SVas to Aten/Mentu or 100-fighter hangar to Orion MKII (anyway next Orion is VERY hypothetical as technologies will be probably completely merged and next-generation GTVA fleet will be common for both Terrans and Vasudans) isn't good idea. If you don't believe me, we can do little wargames on ICQ/MSN/IRC. ;)

BTW little digression about current non-beam and non-prototype weaponry that could be given to capships:
- Subach/Mekhu - better than standard capship turrets but MS would be much better
- Morning Star - one of the most powerful AF weapons, low energy usage (comparing to flaks or AAAs, however also two times larger usage than Prom S and 18 times more than standard turret but considering old age of standard turrets and incompatibility with modern systems changes things for better) gives it possibility for wide use on all capships, is quite good against shields, has got large range (2000) and, the most important, it deals serious kinetic push, I think almost all GTVA capships should be armed with it (mostly AC and Carrier-oriented) as it's very good in fending off fighters and shooting down bombs
- Akheton SDG - could be good in AC self-defence, but has got large energy usage and much shorter range than Maxim (750)
- Prometheus S - good weapon, 1500m range and less energy usage than Morning Star but becomes obsolete as MS+Maxim duo can do the job better
- Maxim - another very good weapon, VERY long range and large hull damage, altough energy usage even bigger than MS (three times as much as Prom S) note about modern systems applies to it too, weak against shields but MS can do this job, also can be used as AC self-defence
- Kayser - I think it's even worse for capships than Prom S, energy usage as large as MS and shorter range (1500)
- Circe - unnecessary crap with not-so-great shield damage and short range
- Lamprey - as above, could be good for fighter suppression if it had larger range, less energy consumption and EMP effect on impact
- Terran Turret - C.R.A.P, can't do anything to fighters, better against bombs, but it's very old and becomes incompatible with modern systems
- Terran Huge Turret - C.R.A.P, more damage but even less velocity than standard turret making it even more useless against fighters
- Terran Turret Weak - C.R.A.P, nothing different than standard except very few shield damage = even more useless against fighters
- AAA - very large energy usage limiting it to capships only and IMHO should be used only on AF/universal capships, anyway it's powerful due to shield penetrate abilities, overloaded version with 4000m range, rapid fire and damage enough to blow up Seraphim in two shots is the best AF weapon
- Standard Flak - quite powerful weapon, altough without ability of shield penetration and takes more place, it deals more overall damage per second and is better in fighter suppression, also good for AF/universal capships
- Heavy Flak - weaker counterpart of Standard Flak, can be used when Standard flak would take too much place (like in Aeolus with two UltraAAAs)
- Long Range Flak - basically LR version of Heavy Flak, IMHO useless, Maxim has got bigger range
- Rockeye - this could be powerful weapon for capships, rapid fire, long range and seeking ability would make it good weapon for both fighter killing and suppression, in theory it could "spam" and force enemy to either turn back and launch countermeasures or face with lots, lots of rockets
- Tempest - short range = unnecessary crap
- Hornet - like Rockeye good for "spamming", but shorter range and less maneuverability makes it less useful, it's also older and less compatible with modern systems
- Harpoon - like above, only with better maneuverability and better compatibility
- TAG X - gives better accuracy, but it'd be much better to give it to fighters rather than waste space on capship
- Stiletto II - pure AC self-defence, with rapid fire and 5500 range (1500 more than typical beams) it can disarm enemy capship and is more place&energy-efficient than Slash beams leaving more place&energy for other weapons, good for specialised capships (AF cruisers or carriers for example)
- Infyrno - AF weapon with the biggest damage, takes lots of place limiting it to large capships and has short range, however no fighter or bomber can survive when hit by it, also good for disarming capships that will get too close
- Cyclops - C.R.A.P, less range, damage and fire rate than beams, not to mention it can be taken down
- EMP Adv. - short range, but great for anti-bomber defence, good fighter supression weapon.

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Which Capitol Ship do you feel should be upgraded?
And like I've said, just snipe the turrets off the capital ship first, I always use Trebuchets in conjunction with Helios or Cyclops missiles.

A reasonable strategy.  Much like Wild Weasel missions today - Trebuchets are good for SEAD, suppression of enemy air defenses. 

Though not always an option, and - given any degree of sense - warships so targeted might just jump out.  I hesitate to call this a universal method of eliminating capital ships as a tactical presence.