[AlphaOne]

Actualy by the time you engage the Sath you can safely asume that most of the fighterrs you see around it come from the Sath . Let us not forget that the Sath deployed its bommber and fighters on numerous ocasions and lost quite a great deal of them. It's fighters and bommbers had to take out the Psamtik and they were involved in numerous other battles. Also when you go and take out its forward beam cannons you see quite a few wings of bommber and fighters. Remember the Sath has only 5 beamc cannons and a few flacks and aaf beams to it. So I ask you what was all that belly of the sath filled with??

And do not tell me it was with reactors and stuff...!

[Qwer]

Yeah, those were reactors and stuff. Remember Sathanas has got powerful subspace weapon, where would it get power for it, from Stanta Claus?   And yeah, Sathanas deployed...20 fighters in mission where it's attacked plus 8 when it's owned by Colossus, prehaps more when it breached GD-Capella blocade. Other fighters could've been deployed by attending destroyers.

[Commander Zane]

So I ask you what was all that belly of the sath filled with??

Food?
Hey, it looks like a giant tick...it must have been eating ship hulls or something...

[AlphaOne]

There were no destroyer anywhere near the sathanas when it engaged the GTVA forces and the GTVA blokade. Also the subspace weaponry as it was named is not a weapon in its own right ! Remember it took over 80 jugs to make capella supernova. Not just one.

Also the sath deployes much more then just 8 fighter wings ! if you take the time to take out the fighters you will see the sath deply aditional wings.

Also we are all aware that shivans poses very very advanced subspace tech for all we know they could have jusp drives the size of a car for an entire jugg.

Also asuming that the belly of the sath was filled with reactors and ubspace stuff if pure fantasy there is no evidence to suport that absolutely no evidence.

I'm just surprised Aldo is not here to slam the cannon stuff around. Man he comes when you least want him and leaves when you need him the most! Talk about bad timing


See Aldo we do agree on some things

[Qwer]

AlphaOne - there were no info indicating that no destroyer jumped into Gamma Draconis after Sathanas except Beleth. And Sath deployed what I've said before, I've looked into FRED. Shivans have got advanced subspace tech, but still powering such a powerful device requires huge, really huge amount of energy and can be delivered only by lots of powerful reactors. There's no evidence for that, but I'm using logic to make that conclusion.

[AlphaOne]

Yeah sure and the fact that they might of diverted the power from they beam cannon reactors to power up that subspace field of each Sathanas would be absolutely insane to believe no? Come on you make it sound like its cannon ! Also if there were other destroyers anywhere near the area where sathanas number 1 was destroyed dont you believe they would of jumped in fast and rescued the blasted thing?

Come on this s stuff you made yourself believe are true and now you try and convince the rest of the peoiple that it should be some sort of cannon or fannon or whatever.

It's comon sense to believe based on the info we have about the shivans and theyr advanced subspace tech that they could of generated that kind of energi from dry peanuts for all we know ! Want to know why? Because we do not know anithing about the shivan subspace tech except the fact that its extremely advanced..that they can use nodes too small for a GTVA fighter to go through let alone a cap ship and nodes so unstable that it makes everyone tremble at the simple though that the shivans can use them. And that is all.


Also thsoe fighters clearely come from the sath since well...they do not jump in and unless i'm totaly blind ia have failed to see them coming from a nearby destroyer.

[Qwer]

Notice it took those 80 Sathanses 72 hours to charge up subspace weapon and about 20% of them overloaded their powergrids during launch (you can see powering down Saths when they launch their weapons and then consumed by Supernova). Their tech may be advanced, but blowing up star is much harder than planet or Colossus and requires huge, really huge amount of energy.

There are 5 missions with first Sathanas. In first it deploys nothing (or at least we don't see it because we don't know if these earlier fighters were from Sathanas or destroyers so it can't negate my theory). In second it deploys 19 fighters&bombers. Third - nothing. Fourth - nothing (it might've deployed fighters earlier when it was destroying blockade but when player jumps in to disarm it fighters are coming from subspace, not Sath). Fifth - 8 fighters. That gives us 28 fighters. If we assume it deployed 3,5 times more (in fifth one it probably ran out of fighters, otherwise it'd deploy more than just two wings) we get about 100 fighters, the same as Orion. It makes sense IMHO.

And I don't know where do you see my arrogant non-canon->canon behavior, I'm just defending my theory giving arguments. If none of my assumptions remains in conflict with what we've seen in main campaign, my theory can't be negated.

BTW I've missed one more weapon earlier when I was making list of weapons and my opinion about them:
- Piranha - good fighter suppression weapon because of its area effect, very dangerous when launched in large numbers

[AlphaOne]

Actualy when you are tring to support a theary or asumption you have to have real cannon evidence for that. Also we do not see anywhere the sath overloading its powegrid. WE just see them stoiping in anithing they were dooing and changing colour. Wich to me would sugest they might of died which would sugest the sath are grown at least in part rather then built.

Usualy when a ship overloads its powergrid to that point it explodes it does not change colour.

What you have provided so far in defence of your theories are your own opinions and no cannon proof whatsoever.

Also if thge sath had not deployed fighter wings to cover it they you can rest asured that its beam cannons would of been taken out at the blocade and it would of been destroyed ther as well since the beam cannons would of been a priority for the GTVA fighter/bommber crews.

Or are you gooing to tell me that the blocading fleet decided to go by theyr beam cannons and not use fighters and bommbers to disable or take out the Sath. Especialy since GTVA beam cannons are so much more "advanced" then they shivan counterparts.

GTVA comand may be stupid may even be retarted or labotomized but they are not suicidal.

I want cannon evidence from the game about all those things you stated about the sath. Not theories but hard proof.

[General Battuta]

I want cannon evidence from the game about all those things you stated about the sath. Not theories but hard proof.

Gunnery control, power up photon beam cannons!  Commence plasma core insertion!

But seriously, man, you're speculating just as wildly.  Who says ships who overload their reactors tend to explode?  Have we ever once seen that?  Did the Colossus explode in High Noon when it stressed its power grid to the limit?  Nooooo, it made other stuff explode. 

I think the assumption that some of the Saths overloaded and lost power is not unreasonable. 

[Qwer]

Sath - General Battuta already said about subspace weapon thing. About blockade it'd be logical if Sath had saved its fighters for that engagement by blockade to protect it from GTVA fighters and managed to do their job but in cost of large looses.

Canon - so in your opinion everything that hasn't been said/shown in main campaigns isn't true. If everybody would think like you, there wouldn't be philosophy. I gave arguments on why to not negate theory and that increases its probability. You can't interpret events from FreeSpace basing entirely on literal stuff you've seen in campaign and tech descriptions.

[ShivanSpS]

Ok i have uploaded the final version of my GTVA Fleet Weapons upgrade, so, take a look xD!.

[Qwer]

My own version of capital ship upgrade. Notice it's uncompatible with main FS campaign.

Changes I've made but you can't see:
- Hecate has got 300 fighters in its fighterbay
- Hades has got only repair bays that can't house fighters pernamently, but can temporarily take few fighters to repair and rearm them
- Colossus also has got repair bay instead of fighterbay
- Hatshepsut also has got repair bays
- Demon like higher
- Ravana has got 300 fighters in fighterbays
- Lucifer also repair bays
- Moloch now has got 36 fighters
- Sathanas also repair bay.
That should explain all changes I've made and seems to be under/over-powered.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[General Battuta]

 

A Moloch carries 36 fighters and a juggernaught carries none?

[Qwer]

Well now ships are specialised. I had problems when I tried to figure out how to upgrade Shivan capital ships as we know virtually nothing about them so I've decided it'd be good to adjust ship stats to their basic roles. Now Moloch is corvette-carrier and Sath is Star-Killer with huge froward firepower.

[AlphaOne]

Oki for the love of god it is comon sence to believe that a sath can carry at least an equal amount of fighters to the collie simply because the collie has them. Shivans are much more advanced in ship design (altough some of they designs i find to be totaly useless) weapons tech and subspace tech. At least in terms of subspace tech you can safely asume they can pretty much use the jump drive of a fighter for they juggs for all we know. Also when the collie overloaded its beam cannon powergrid it lost 20 of its hp. Also since a masive overload was located mainly n its beam cannon powergrid and not its main reactor providing power to most of the ship and engines a total catastrophy has been avoided.

Also i'm not saing that everithing that goes on in the main fs campaingns should be take literaly but still at least something on which you base your asumptions would sufice.

I said the sath changed its collort in the cutscenes whych to me would sugest it died and since only organic things can die...well.....you get the point. I base my asumptions on something which happenes in the game and is in generalor at least in some way or another related to what we know from the game and tech room cutscenes monologues etc.

You just base them on your own asumptions with absolutely no relation to what goes on in the game.

[aldo_14]

I said the sath changed its collort in the cutscenes whych to me would sugest it died and since only organic things can die...

Tell my Pc that.

[Qwer]

AlphaOne - all we know is that they've got far more advanced subspace tech (Sath subspace weapon, ability to travel through very unstable jump nodes and fast regeneration of their jump drives), but their weapons are on level similar to GTVA, about ship desings we don't know anything so my assumptions can't be negated by what we've seen in campaign, yours can. Why? All 100 Saths were around Capella and didn't invole into fightings with GTVA forces. That means somebody else kicked GTVA butt badly and didn't allow to launch attack on Saths. That large force would be about 200 destroyers (basing on force proportion). Now if Shivan destroyers would have both powerful weaponary (what we can see and I don't negate) AND large fighterbays (that's how you think) then GTVA would be owned much, MUCH quicklier than we've seen (their forces would last at most 24 hours, not to mention player would meet far more enemies). BTW looks like my common sense is broken as it concludes that fighter-scale jump drive on Sath is impossible. Everything has a limit.

Question of nature of Shivan ships (organic or fully mechanic) is one we can't awnser. Anyway Shivan ships can't be fully organic, altough ship interiors and desings looks kinda organic, they've got fully metalic interior (according to boarding cutscene) and outer armor. Also command didn't say anything about organic nature, even when they've caputed several Shivan fighters and bombers (unless they wanted to hide it). Maybe capships have got some organic components inside, but IMHO theory that it's just their architecture is also possible.

[MarkN]

As for fully organic technology, I be glad if the Shivans didn't have it as so many advanced Sci-Fi races do, to the point where it is boring.

[rant] Why do they call it organic, anyway? Organic materials are those based on hydrocarbons, which are not the best things to make ship out of. What they mean is biological technology, where either the ship is made of living organisms, or is manufactured by them.[/rant]

[AlphaOne]

Qwer By the time you get to capella most of the GTVA fleet had already been destroyed! Are you sure you played the game?

Also we have cannon proof of a ravana taking out the collies fighter bay and disabling the collie. Also we have cannon proof that a sath jumped in and destroyed the collie !

Also we have canon proof that the shivans launched numerous cruisers and corvettes at the GTVA forces in an atempt to destroy the fleeing fleet.

Also if 200 freaking destroyers would of been involved the blasted GTVA would of been anihalated so fast it would of made your head spin.


Also since when the HELL do GTVA beam weaponry go anywhere near shivan weaponry?? Now this I have to see! First one of the most powerfull weapons available to you the player as a main gun to use on fighters and bommbers is the KAiser which is based "on extensive research into SHIVAN WEAPONS TECH" ! Also shivan beam cannons can do about 10 times the amount of damage GTVA beam cannons can so how the hell are they anywhere near equal. Thei have a 7second per shot time period and a god damn 5 second or 10 second recharge rate can remember exactly !

The god damn GTVA not only does less damage per second but it has less the half that fire time 3 or 4 seconds if i'm right and a recharge rate...are you ready....of 35 seconds for its most powerfull beam cannons. So you tell me how in god's name are these two weapons suposed to anywhere near equal in temrs or raw firepower and tech.

Such powerfull beam cannons could only be achieved if the tech was advanced enough.

I can pretty much bet that it would take GTVA scientists and engeniers at least a decade to mach the current power of the shivan beam cannons and that is only posible because you can bet they are working with shivan tech or rather studiing shivan tech to achieve theyr goal.

Also whre the hell did you get 100 jugs when the game states over 80 jugs. if it were anywhere near 100 it would state over 90 or 100 jugs.

And where did you get over 200 destroyers?? we dont see anywhere near that many destroyers in the game in fact we do not see anywhere near as many destroyers as the GTVA has thrown at the shivans.

Better get your facts toghether since to me it seems like you smoked something you were not suposed to!

And for the love of god go check the FS wiki! It has all the cannon evidence about the game detailed enough ship descriptions as well as veteran coments, which seem the most conclusive and generaly agreed upon in the whole FS comunity since the time of the VBB.


The bottom line is you are out dreaming with those kinds of figures.

I'm not saing that the shians dont have some 200 destroyers out there i'm just saing they are nowhere near the GTVA space or have ever engaged GTVA forces or they would of at least be mentioned in the game debriefings or something !

[Bob-san]

I'd guess that the Sathanas was more of a shipyard then a carrier. It is gigantic with lots of room inside... similar with the Demon.

It seems to me that the Shivans are without deticated shipyards; there is utter lack of destroyers in comparison with 80+ Sathanai--how many do we really see? Not very many...

The more I look at the Demon, the more it seems like it is what could be the insides of a Sathanas... its a very tough nut to crack and is faster then the Sath.