Author Topic: Aeolus Expensive?  (Read 14190 times)

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Offline Mad Bomber

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The US Navy has 12 aircraft carrier groups, all of which are based around a supercarrier. All but two of said carriers are nuclear (the exceptions being USS Kitty Hawk CV-63, and USS John F. Kennedy CV-67).

No other nation has more than one aircraft carrier in operation except the British, and those two carriers aren't as big. Tho the Russians, Indians, Chinese, British, and French are all developing or buying new ones, either to replace or augment their existing ones (or in the case of the Chinese navy, to have their first carrier altogether).

USN strength:
12 supercarriers (Kitty Hawk, JFK, Enterprise, 9 Nimitz-class; all are humongous)
22 cruisers (Ticonderoga class, being phased out)
50 destroyers (Arleigh Burke class)
30 frigates (Oliver Hazard Perry class)
72 submarines (mostly Los Angeles class, but some Ohio's, Seawolfs, and new Virginia's too)
Plenty of logistics

If all of Europe were to be lumped together, it would have a fairly decent naval force -- albeit one skewed towards smaller ships like frigates and patrol boats.

Russia of course still has much of its old fleet, tho they had to mothball or sell off parts of it in the face of cashflow problems. Skewed towards submarines.

China's navy has grown quite a bit in the past decade or two, and they were the main buyers of the old Russian stuff. 29 destroyers, 43 frigates. No carriers yet, tho they have studied at least four (HMAS Melbourne, and Soviet carriers Minsk, Kiev, and Varyag) so it's fairly obvious they're planning to build at least one in the near future.

Japan, India, and South Korea have pretty impressive navies too.

Romania actually has 3 frigates, counting the Marasesti, and a buncha smaller craft. Not bad considering Romania doesn't have all that much coastline. Tis a slightly bigger fleet than New Zealand's.
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Offline AlphaOne

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Actualy the Marasesti was originaly designated by the Romanian Navy as a destroyer but i guess they downgaded it. It is the Flag ship of the fleet. Also the RoNavy has quite a few corvette class hips and quite a decent fleet on the Danube. But there are rumour they are tryng to reinforce the existing navy by at least 1 submarine and if I understood corectly they are planning to buy some more frigates and perhaps even one or 2 destroyers. But these are all rumours.

Also those are quite impresive fleet numbers.

Also to get back on topic the Fenris and Aten class cruisers are mainly cannon fodder for....fighters. Yeah that is corect. I can take mi perseus arm it with tempest and a kayser and there goes a fenris killer fighter.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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The United States Navy recently announced that they plan to replace all their Oliver Hazard Perry frigates with Ticonderoga Cruisers...

They're being replaced with Arleigh Burkes.

And yes, this is for real. Most of the first-flight and second-flight Perrys have been sent into the reserve. The third-flight Underwoods are the majority of the remaining active ones. They will be replaced by the next class of DDGs. I haven't heard diddly about the Littoral Combatant in years and have good reason to believe the project is either on hold or canceled in favor of the new DDGs.

Understand this very clearly: The Ticos are going nowhere. There are no plans to phase them out, they remain the primary escorts of a carrier and they are still the most capable surface warships afloat. At most they might drop the Blk 1s, which don't have VLS launchers, but this is unlikely. There are also still ships from the Belknap and Leahy classes in service.

Mad, you forgot the Spruance class DDs. They don't get any of the press since they're not as flashy but they're still some the best antisubmarine ships out there, and they have Mk41 VLS launchers to boot now. Perhaps people are confusing them with the Ticos. They use the same hull.

France has the Charles De Gaulle, which is a CVN like US carriers but has only about half the air group. Germany intended to buy a conventionally-powered De Gaulle but I don't know if that ever went through. I suspect not.

Russia has a single CVN of similar size to the De Gaulle. The Varyag was never completed. The Kiev and its three sisters are not properly classed as full CVs; they are more comparable to Britain's jump-jet carriers and in any case have the front end of a CG bolted on. Only the Minsk remains in service in any case. Everyone from India to China to Iran expressed interest in buying a slightly used Kiev but ultimately no one did.

The Brits have the Invincibles which are not full CVs either and have pathetically small airwings. They are however the only major power besides the US and Russia that could hope to muster a decent group of escorts. (The French have no AA shooters worthy of the name and their ASW ships are out of date.)

The Indians have two carriers but both are relatively small (one is the ex-British Hermes and the other they built themselves) and operate only jumpjets. The largest combatants in the remainder of the Indian Navy are modified Russian Kashin-class destroyers and they would be horribly outmatched by a modern combatant.

Rounding out the world the Italians have a pair of hybrid cruiser-carriers that are very respectable combatants but operate only helicopters at the moment (perversely, the Italians too could muster a respectable escort group), and Spain has the Principe de Asturias, which is very similar to the British Invincible.
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Offline Admiral Nelson

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They're being replaced with Arleigh Burkes.

And yes, this is for real. Most of the first-flight and second-flight Perrys have been sent into the reserve. The third-flight Underwoods are the majority of the remaining active ones. They will be replaced by the next class of DDGs. I haven't heard diddly about the Littoral Combatant in years and have good reason to believe the project is either on hold or canceled in favor of the new DDGs.

The first LCS has already been launched and will be commissioned in 2007.

Quote
Understand this very clearly: The Ticos are going nowhere. There are no plans to phase them out, they remain the primary escorts of a carrier and they are still the most capable surface warships afloat. At most they might drop the Blk 1s, which don't have VLS launchers, but this is unlikely. There are also still ships from the Belknap and Leahy classes in service.

All of the first 5 Ticos have been retired, and one has been sunk as a target.  Leahys and Belknaps vanished 10 years ago.

Quote
Mad, you forgot the Spruance class DDs. They don't get any of the press since they're not as flashy but they're still some the best antisubmarine ships out there, and they have Mk41 VLS launchers to boot now. Perhaps people are confusing them with the Ticos. They use the same hull.

All retired, with many expended as targets.  Taiwan has the 4 Kidd class ships in service.

Quote
Russia has a single CVN of similar size to the De Gaulle. The Varyag was never completed. The Kiev and its three sisters are not properly classed as full CVs; they are more comparable to Britain's jump-jet carriers and in any case have the front end of a CG bolted on. Only the Minsk remains in service in any case. Everyone from India to China to Iran expressed interest in buying a slightly used Kiev but ultimately no one did.

The Russian ship is Admiral Kuznetsov, which not not nuclear powered.  Minsk was sold to China for use as an amusement park many years ago.  India bought the last unit of the Kiev class, Admiral Gorshkov.  It is being converted into a proper aircraft carrier.
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Offline Snail

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How did this get so off-topic...?

 

Offline Mad Bomber

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I blame John Major and buckminsterfullerene.
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Offline Dysko

Rounding out the world the Italians have a pair of hybrid cruiser-carriers that are very respectable combatants but operate only helicopters at the moment (perversely, the Italians too could muster a respectable escort group), and Spain has the Principe de Asturias, which is very similar to the British Invincible.
Actually, the Italian Navy has one carrier, the Giuseppe Garibaldi, which is exactly like the Principe de Asturias, only slightly smaller, that can carry Harriers and will carry F-35s (and maybe E-2s, but I doubt we have the economic power to buy even one of them... :doubt:). In the next years also the Camillo Benso Conte di Cavour (longest carrier name, ever!) will enter service, and will be almost exactly like the Principe the Asturias.

Unless you were talking about the Tarawa-like San Giorgio, San Marco and San Giusto. In that case, you are true: they can carry only helicopters (so, they are not so Tarawa-like). :)
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Offline jr2

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How did this get so off-topic...?
Seconded.  :p

 

Offline Admiral Nelson

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I can merge the two topics.... :)

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Offline Snail

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:lol:

Hehe, good one, man. Is that one expensive too? :lol:

 

Offline IceFire

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:lol:

Hehe, good one, man. Is that one expensive too? :lol:
Only if someone comes in here and makes it up that it is :)
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Offline IceFire

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Might have to split threads here but RE the carrier/escort combos in the world...the UK and France are collaborating on a new class of full size CV for operating fixed wing aircraft like the F-35 or the Rafael carrier version.  Also, Russia has announced its building new ships including at least one carrier.
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Offline Bob-san

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Code: (http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/org9-4.htm#2000) [Select]
Dates  9/1/00  11/16/01
Battleships - -
Carriers 12 12
Cruisers 27 27
Destroyers 54 54
Frigates 35 35
Submarines 56 54
SSBNs 18 18
Mine Warfare 27 27
Patrol 13 13
Amphibious 39 39
Auxiliary 60 58
Surface Warships 116 116
Total Active 341 337

To clarify the ship numbers included in this table, the year 2000 entries include active commissioned ships, those in the Naval Reserve Force (NRF) and ships operated by the Military Sealift Command (MSC).  Row entries are self-explanatory, with the auxiliary category including combat logistic ships (such as oilers, ammunition, combat store ships), mobile logistics ships (such as submarine tenders) and support ships (such as command, salvage, tugs and research ships).  Command ships have been subsumed into that category and the separate line entry removed.
Hope that helps a bit...

Don't forget the USA is commissioning another Nimitz; the Bush iirc.


Oh you might find this interesting too...

Code: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_U.S._Navy_ships%2C_sorted_by_homeport) [Select]
Bahrain

    * USS Ardent (MCM-12)
    * USS Cardinal (MHC-60)
    * USS Dextrous (MCM-13)
    * USS Raven (MHC-61)

Bangor, Washington

    * USS Alabama (SSBN-731)
    * USS Alaska (SSBN-732)
    * USS Florida (SSGN-728)
    * USS Henry M. Jackson (SSBN-730)
    * USS Jimmy Carter (SSN-23)
    * USS Kentucky (SSBN-737)
    * USS Louisiana (SSBN-743)
    * USS Nebraska (SSBN-739)
    * USS Nevada (SSBN-733)
    * USS Maine (SSBN-741)
    * USS Ohio (SSGN-726)
    * USS Pennsylvania (SSBN-735)

Bremerton, Washington

    * USS Columbus (SSN-762)
    * USS Houston (SSN-713)
    * USS John C. Stennis (CVN-74)

Charlestown, Massachusetts

    * USS Constitution

Everett, Washington

    * USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN-72)
    * USS Ford (FFG-54)
    * USS Ingraham (FFG-61)
    * USS Rodney M. Davis (FFG-60)
    * USS Shoup (DDG-86)

Gaeta, Italy

    * USS Mount Whitney (LCC-20)

Groton, Connecticut

    * USS Albuquerque (SSN-706)
    * USS Alexandria (SSN-757)
    * USS Augusta (SSN-710)
    * USS Connecticut (SSN-22)
    * USS Dallas (SSN-700)
    * USS Hartford (SSN-768)
    * USS Memphis (SSN-691)
    * USS Miami (SSN-755)
    * USS Philadelphia (SSN-690)
    * USS Pittsburgh (SSN-720)
    * USS Providence (SSN-719)
    * USS San Juan (SSN-751)
    * USS Seawolf (SSN-21)
    * USS Toledo (SSN-769)
    * USS Virginia (SSN-774)

Guam

    * USS City of Corpus Christi (SSN-705)
    * USS Frank Cable (AS-40)
    * USS San Francisco (SSN-711)

Ingleside, Texas

    * USS Avenger (MCM-1)
    * USS Black Hawk (MHC-58)
    * USS Champion (MCM-4)
    * USS Chief (MCM-14)
    * USS Cormorant (MHC-57)
    * USS Defender (MCM-2)
    * USS Devastator (MCM-6)
    * USS Falcon (MHC-59)
    * USS Gladiator (MCM-11)
    * USS Heron (MHC-52)
    * USS Kingfisher (MHC-56)
    * USS Oriole (MHC-55)
    * USS Osprey (MHC-51)
    * USS Pelican (MHC-53)
    * USS Pioneer (MCM-9)
    * USS Robin (MHC-54)
    * USS Scout (MCM-8)
    * USS Sentry (MCM-3)
    * USS Shrike (MHC-62)
    * USS Warrior (MCM-10)

Kings Bay, Georgia

    * USS Maryland (SSBN-738)
    * USS Rhode Island (SSBN-740)
    * USS Tennessee (SSBN-734)
    * USS West Virginia (SSBN-736)
    * USS Wyoming (SSBN-742)

La Maddalena

    * USS Emory S. Land (AS-39)

Little Creek, Virginia

    * USS Ashland (LSD-48)
    * USS Carter Hall (LSD-50)
    * USS Chinook (PC-9)
    * USS Firebolt (PC-10)
    * USS Grapple (ARS-53)
    * USS Grasp (ARS-51)
    * USS Gunston Hall (LSD-44)
    * USS Oak Hill (LSD-51)
    * USS Sirocco (PC-6)
    * USS Tempest (PC-2)
    * USS Thunderbolt (PC-12)
    * USS Tortuga (LSD-46)
    * USS Typhoon (PC-5)
    * USS Whidbey Island (LSD-41)
    * USS Whirlwind (PC-11)

Mayport, Florida

    * USS Boone (FFG-28)
    * USS Carney (DDG-64)
    * USS De Wert (FFG-45)
    * USS Doyle (FFG-39)
    * USS Farragut (DDG-99)
    * USS Gettysburg (CG-64)
    * USS Halyburton (FFG-40)
    * USS Hue City (CG-66)
    * USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67)
    * USS Klakring (FFG-42)
    * USS McInerney (FFG-8)
    * USS Philippine Sea (CG-58)
    * USS Robert G. Bradley (FFG-49)
    * USS Roosevelt (DDG-80)
    * USS Samuel B. Roberts (FFG-58)
    * USS Simpson (FFG-56)
    * USS Taylor (FFG-50)
    * USS The Sullivans (DDG-68)
    * USS Underwood (FFG-36)
    * USS Vicksburg (CG-69)

Norfolk, Virginia

    * USS Albany (SSN-753)
    * USS Anzio (CG-68)
    * USS Arleigh Burke (DDG-51)
    * USS Austin (LPD-4)
    * USS Barry (DDG-52)
    * USS Bataan (LHD-5)
    * USS Boise (SSN-764)
    * USS Bulkeley (DDG-84)
    * USS Cape St. George (CG-71)
    * USS Carl Vinson (CVN-70)
    * USS Carr (FFG-52)
    * USS Cole (DDG-67)
    * USS Donald Cook (DDG-75)
    * USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN-69)
    * USS Elrod (FFG-55)
    * USS Enterprise (CVN-65)
    * USS George Washington (CVN-73)
    * USS Georgia (SSGN-729)
    * USS Gonzalez (DDG-66)
    * USS Hampton (SSN-767)
    * USS Harry S. Truman (CVN-75)
    * USS Hawes (FFG-53)
    * USS Hyman G. Rickover (SSN-709)
    * USS Iwo Jima (LHD-7)
    * USS Jacksonville (SSN-699)
    * USS James E. Williams (DDG-95)
    * USS Kauffman (FFG-59)
    * USS Kearsarge (LHD-3)
    * USS Laboon (DDG-58)
    * USS Leyte Gulf (CG-55)
    * USS Mahan (DDG-72)
    * USS Mason (DDG-87)
    * USS McFaul (DDG-74)
    * USS Minneapolis Saint Paul (SSN-708)
    * USS Mitscher (DDG-57)
    * USS Monterey (CG-61)
    * USS Montpelier (SSN-765)
    * USS Nashville (LPD-13)
    * USS Nassau (LHA-4)
    * USS Newport News (SSN-750)
    * USS Nicholas (FFG-47)
    * USS Nitze (DDG-94)
    * USS Norfolk (SSN-714)
    * USS Normandy (CG-60)
    * USS Oklahoma City (SSN-723)
    * USS Oscar Austin (DDG-79)
    * USS Ponce (LPD-15)
    * USS Porter (DDG-78)
    * USS Ramage (DDG-61)
    * USS Ross (DDG-71)
    * USS Saipan (LHA-2)
    * USS San Antonio (LPD 17)|
    * USS San Jacinto (CG-56)
    * USS Scranton (SSN-756)
    * USS Shreveport (LPD-12)
    * USS Stout (DDG-55)
    * USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71)
    * USS Trenton (LPD-14)
    * USS Vella Gulf (CG-72)
    * USS Wasp (LHD-1)
    * USS Winston S. Churchill (DDG-81)

Pascagoula, Mississippi

    * USS John L. Hall (FFG-32)
    * USS Stephen W. Groves (FFG-29)

Pearl Harbor

    * USS Bremerton (SSN-698)
    * USS Buffalo (SSN-715)
    * USS Chafee (DDG-90)
    * USS Charlotte (SSN-766)
    * USS Cheyenne (SSN-773)
    * USS Chicago (SSN-721)
    * USS Chosin (CG-65)
    * USS Columbia (SSN-771)
    * USS Crommelin (FFG-37)
    * USS Greeneville (SSN-772)
    * USS Honolulu (SSN-718)
    * USS Hopper (DDG-70)
    * USS Key West (SSN-722)
    * USS La Jolla (SSN-701)
    * USS Lake Erie (CG-70)
    * USS Los Angeles (SSN-688)
    * USS Louisville (SSN-724)
    * USS O'Kane (DDG-77)
    * USS Olympia (SSN-717)
    * USS Pasadena (SSN-752)
    * USS Paul Hamilton (DDG-60)
    * USS Port Royal (CG-73)
    * USS Reuben James (FFG-57)
    * USS Russell (DDG-59)
    * USS Salvor (ARS-52)
    * USS Santa Fe (SSN-763)
    * USS Tucson (SSN-770)

Portsmouth, New Hampshire

    * USS Annapolis (SSN-760)
    * USS Springfield (SSN-761)

San Diego, California

    * USS Antietam (CG-54)
    * USS Asheville (SSN-758)
    * USS Belleau Wood (LHA-3)
    * USS Benfold (DDG-65)
    * USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD-6)
    * USS Boxer (LHD-4)
    * USS Bunker Hill (CG-52)
    * USS Chung-Hoon (DDG-93)
    * USS Cleveland (LPD-7)
    * USS Comstock (LSD-45)
    * USS Coronado (AGF-11)
    * USS Curts (FFG-38)
    * USS Decatur (DDG-73)
    * USS Denver (LPD-9)
    * USS Dolphin (AGSS-555)
    * USS Dubuque (LPD-8)
    * USS Duluth (LPD-6)
    * USS Germantown (LSD-42)
    * USS Halsey (DDG-97)
    * USS Helena (SSN-725)
    * USS Higgins (DDG-76)
    * USS Howard (DDG-83)
    * USS Hurricane (PC-3)
    * USS Jarrett (FFG-33)
    * USS Jefferson City (SSN-759)
    * USS John Paul Jones (DDG-53)
    * USS Lake Champlain (CG-57)
    * USS McCampbell (DDG-85)
    * USS McClusky (FFG-41)
    * USS Milius (DDG-69)
    * USS Mobile Bay (CG-53)
    * USS Momsen (DDG-92)
    * USS Nimitz (CVN-68)
    * USS Ogden (LPD-5)
    * USS Pearl Harbor (LSD-52)
    * USS Peleliu (LHA-5)
    * USS Pinckney (DDG-91)
    * USS Preble (DDG-88)
    * USS Princeton (CG-59)
    * USS Rentz (FFG-46)
    * USS Ronald Reagan (CVN-76)
    * USS Rushmore (LSD-47)
    * USS Salt Lake City (SSN-716)
    * USS Squall (PC-7)
    * USS Tarawa (LHA-1)
    * USS Thach (FFG-43)
    * USS Topeka (SSN-754)

Sasebo, Japan

    * USS Essex (LHD-2)
    * USS Fort McHenry (LSD-43)
    * USS Guardian (MCM-5)
    * USS Harpers Ferry (LSD-49)
    * USS Juneau (LPD-10)
    * USS Patriot (MCM-7)
    * USS Safeguard (ARS-50)

Yokosuka, Japan

    * USS Blue Ridge (LCC-19)
    * USS Cowpens (CG-63)
    * USS Curtis Wilbur (DDG-54)
    * USS Fitzgerald (DDG-62)
    * USS Gary (FFG-51)
    * USS John S. McCain (DDG-56)
    * USS Kitty Hawk (CV-63)
    * USS Lassen (DDG-82)
    * USS Mustin (DDG-89)
    * USS Shiloh (CG-67)
    * USS Stethem (DDG-63)
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Offline Kosh

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Quote
Don't forget the USA is commissioning another Nimitz; the Bush iirc.


Named after which Bush? Junior or Senior?


And btw, wasn't it only a few years ago that the Ronald Reagan was commissioned? Where are we getting the money for these things? A carrier is not a cheap toy........
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
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Offline jr2

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I can merge the two topics.... :)
USS Aeolus (ARC-3)
...
:p

 

Offline Snail

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The USS Bush Junior? USS Oil Monger.

 

Offline AlphaOne

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Hey that is corect is the US in arms race again? I mean 2 carriers in less the what 5 years or what? Whats next 4 balistic subs in less then a decade? Wow US citizens must be really rich to go along with this much arms spending!
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

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Offline Commander Zane

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They do that with everything except for hand-held equipment.
The Air Force pops around just about every ten years with a brand-spanking new prototype aircraft constantly.
The Navy, I don't know.
The Army, they're still using something that appeared on the drawing board in the 50's as a standard issue firearm.

 

Offline AlphaOne

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Hell most of the armies in the world still use the AK-47 ! Or variants of it. It is a proven deadly reliable cheap efective weapon. So unless you can bring about laser hand held guns or something like that the world will just keep using them.
Die shivan die!!
Then jumps into his apple stealth pie and goes of to war.What a brave lad....what a brave lad say the ladies in red.
 

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Offline jr2

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From http://world.guns.ru/assault/as61-e.htm :
XM8
XM8 rifle in basic infantry configuration, as displayed in January, 2004, at the ShotShow-04 in USA

XM8 rifle in "automatic rifle" (light machine gun) configuration. Note longer barrel and folded bipods under the forearm

XM8 rifle in "sharpshooter" (parasniper) configuration. While sight looks similar to red-dot, mounted on other variants, it is of 3.5X magnification; spare magazine is clamped to the right side of the magazine inserted into the rifle.

XM8 rifle in Compact (SMG / PDW) configuration, with shortened barrel.

Author of that website is posing with XM8 at the ShotShow-2004, Las Vegas, USA.


... I guess this supposedly may or may not go into production... they're thinking about it now.
EDIT: if you painted it grey, is it just me, or does that look like Halo's Assault Rifle?  ;7
« Last Edit: February 15, 2007, 08:18:30 am by jr2 »