Author Topic: C&C3  (Read 18560 times)

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Sounds good.

As for the Ion Cannon being a WMD rather than a surgical strike tool, there is a hint that that's what Westwood originally intended it for.  There is one GDI mission in CnC1 where, after you win, you see an Ion Cannon beam come down and slowly expand to encompass what is clearly the entire Nod base.  You see it start at, I think, the barracks, and expand to take the refinery, several turrets, a few vehicles and a fence, which are significantly spaced out.
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Offline IceFire

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Just finished playing the demo.  I'm impressed but you guys probably already have me pegged as a huge C&C fan so it'd take a fair bit to be disappointed by it. That said...there's some very impressive but sometimes subtle innovations going on here.  The tech tree is more complex than I was expecting which forces you to spend wisely on the upgrades you really want and try for the other ones later.  Definitely a richer experience here than past C&C games.

The interface is extremely well put together. Its intuitive with a huge amount of functionality.  Also the game is smooth...its faster than Generals I think.  Despite being flashier and whatnot.  I still haven't tweaked the settings but its extremely fast and my AMD 2700+ is quite long in the tooth by todays standards.

So far my biggest gripe is that I can't seem to get my sound to work properly.  A fair bit of crackle coming out about a minute after loading things up.  Not sure if its Soundstorm or what.  Its the first game I've had problems with sound in a very long time.
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Offline Ferret

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*You can play as NOD in skirmish*

To do it, open the side selection, highlight over NOD, then hit the N key and click it at the same time. You can then play as NOD.  The NOD Avatar of War is sweet as hell, also Obelisks, hell yeah. 8) (No voice-over computer for NOD though, maybe CABAL will be back?)

You can also select Scrin but substituting S for N, however they obviously haven't put the unit or structure info in, as when you start you instantly fail. However you get to see the Scrin GUI and the defeat screen.

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Is the combat any more interesting than the old games? Once again, I can't play C&C anymore because I've been spoiled by the likes of Homeworld and Dawn of War - watching troops stand two feet away and wave their machine guns at each other is just too boring to be worth playing.

 

Offline Ferret

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Is the combat any more interesting than the old games? Once again, I can't play C&C anymore because I've been spoiled by the likes of Homeworld and Dawn of War - watching troops stand two feet away and wave their machine guns at each other is just too boring to be worth playing.
The combat is a little more fast paced than before. There are tons of big explosions and pretty laser weapons to make that side interesting enough, not to mention the effects are just simply good enough for you to sit back and enjoy your base being blown to smithereens.

NOD in particular seem to have a large range of available units that do lots of different things, and as already stated, the upgrades are a nice touch.

I really recommend you at least try the demo. I love DoW and Homeworld too, C&C has always been my first love though, and to see them get this right is something I never thought I would see.
I think I'm gonna be mighty distracted from DoW come release day.

 

Offline Unknown Target

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I'm not bought in by fancy effects, though. I want to see my units actually look like they're attacking each other, not fight like it's the 18th century and they have to all line up on the killing field. I've never had a top of the line machine, so what draws me into a game graphically have always been good, immersive animations and the like, and C&C has always lacked that for me.

But I will see if I can snag the demo :)

EDIT: Looking at gameplay footage, though, I must say I am not impressed in the slightest. Woohoo, pretty graphics. Where's my gameplay?
*Pulls out Tiberian Sun*
Oh wait, here it is. It looks to be the exact same, unfortunately.
Basically what the C&C missions always boiled down to for me was...build up force...walk through slogfest where I spend time selecting units, telling them all to attack an enemy unit, wait until it dies, click next unit, and so on. Then advance to enemy base, select buildings in successive order starting with the most important first, sit around while it gets destroyed, then select the next building. Repeat ad nauseum.

EDIT 2: I also notice that they're using a squad-based system now - something that I ****ing loathe unless the game is specifically built for it (like, say, Ground Control).
« Last Edit: February 27, 2007, 10:39:09 pm by Unknown Target »

 

Offline Ferret

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.......
Well for a start, might I say that I hate Tiberian Sun a lot. The gameplay in this is much much better.
There's a lot more strategy involved, especially with the way resource points work now and the fact you can now build forward outposts without an MCV. As previously mentioned the amount of different unit types is a serious boost.

The C&C games have been pretty much mostly tank fests, and the fact remains that it's ridiculous fun. While you can employ the same tactics here, there's a lot more depth to it, and anyone with any experience would wipe the floor with you.

As for the squad stuff, the infantry stay constantly bunched together, and act as a single unit for all intents and purposes. They're only visually squad based and I think that's to justify not needing to queue up 30 of them and to increase their power (and usability) on the battlefield. C&C generally has had this thing about the infantry being worthless, this seems to have done a great deal towards fixing that.

If you do get the demo, I must insist that you try playing as NOD before you dismiss it.

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Even though the infantry is in a squad, (I have yet to play it, but this is from what I've seen and experienced with all other games), it's still balanced like a single unit. So even though there's 10 guys firing, they're still not doing a whole lot of damage.

Although you haven't really addressed my buildup/move forward/slog/base slog game formula...which is what it looks like.

It may be prettier, but it looks about the same in terms of gameplay. At least from the combat side - it may be balanced differently, whatever, what I need to make an RTS fun is to have a reason to watch these people do all the fighting for me.

 

Offline CP5670

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I only played it for a little while, but this game is looking like a big winner. The gameplay is generally similar to the last three C&C games, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. This is the first game I've seen in years that seems to be living up to my expectations.

One thing that is quite annoying though is the 30fps framecap. Seems like a holdover from the Generals engine. Is there any way to disable it, at least in singleplayer?

 

Offline MetalDestroyer

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I love the C&C universe, but since I have tryed and now play to Supreme Commander, I was trying to zoom in and zoom out like Supreme Commander. Unfortunately, we have to clic on the mini map or just scroll the screen to change location. This kind of move is very painfull when you have just discover the powerfull of the zoom in/zoom out from Supreme Commander.

In another and, the C&C 3 demo is more stable than SC, I mean the framerate is a little high with fulldetail for my 4 years old computer, the combat is very fully intensive and effects are very varied. However, I don't like the ressource system. Yeah, I know that all the C&C series have use the same ressource system, same game mecanics, but when I discover Supreme Commander, I take all my time to build offensive units and defensive point. I don't have to search another mass ressources since we can create it.

In C&C, when the Tiberium is depleted, you have to go elsewhere and make sure to protect your Harvester et put them as near as possible to a reffinery. And when, there are no tiberium, you couldn't even produce units. And that, I hate it >_< . Yesterday, I was trying to finish the 2nd mission from the demo after the Prologue (O don't mean the Skirmish), I had an advantage at first and since I tryied to attack the NOD base, I lost everything until I have depleted my ressources nearby. Finally, my base was destroyed  :ick:

 

Offline Falcon

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Having loads of fun putting infantry in buildings and then using bombers to blow stuff up.


Visuals are awesome as well with great performance. Was able to put everything on high and set my resolution to 1600x1200. :D


 

Offline Ferret

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Yeah I can't enough good things about the engine, it's rare these days that a developer takes the time to actually create a good, fast engine. Most of the time they just bash together something crap and expect people to upgrade to ridiculous machines just to play their stupidly hype driven game. (cough supreme cough commander)

Not to mention the detail and the amount of stuff that goes on is incredible. In addition to the fast paced nature of the game, I'm finding it hard to get bored with this demo.

Roll on March 30th!

 

Offline Sandwich

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You guys have pretty much covered all the bases. :) I'll just toss in a few extra points I noticed.

1 - Get the game demo via BitTorrent. Nice and fast. And legal. :)
2 - Command queueing! And implemented quite nicely, to boot! You can queue up a seires of commands by holding down the ALT button for an individual unit/selection group of units, or, you can hit CTRL-Z to jump to queue mode, tell a gazillion different units to do a gazillion different things for the next four years, and then hit CTRL-Z again to watch them all move out simultaneously. Great for planning pincer moves. :)
3 - Souped-up "box"-select is awesome. :D Not only do you have the typical "drag a rectangle" select, but you also can hold down CTRL to get a "draw a curvy-twisty line however you want around only those units you want to select" function! This rocks.
4 - Others have said this already, but I want to reiterate: performance is fabulous. I have a Core 2 Duo E6600 (higher-end of the CPU spectrum, granted), 1GB of DDR400 RAM (average), and... a Radeon 9500 Pro (a midrange card... according to the standards of about 4 YEARS ago!). And yet, I can pump many of the GFX settings up to medium, some even up to full, and still get smooth gameplay. Serious kudos to the coders & optimizers of this engine. :yes:
5 - The improved ion cannon literally made my jaw drop (graphically, that is... I am unconvinced that the total destruction it wrought at the end of the prologue mission wasn't a scripted self-destruct of the entire NOD base upon ion cannon impact).

So far, so good - this gets :yes2::nod::yes: from me. :)
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Unknown Target

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I shall wait until a demo that supports skirmish/multiplayer comes out :)

 

Offline Sandwich

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The demo supports skirmish.
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Grawr

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The demo makes me very, very sad.

It has some truly brilliant UI innovations- many already listed here- but for all the new goodies, it's still the same old thing... build a war factory first, and then just pump out so many tanks that no defense could possibly hold them back. I was really hoping for a C&C where you had to do a little more thinking to win...

That said, I'll be returning to SupCom and CoH... something interesting I've noted about SupCom, from skimming various boards, is that almost everyone who doesn't like without expressly saying why, is typically playing it the wrong way : /. I think it's brilliant, and while I dislike the fact that it is so CPU intensive (which struck me as a risky move in today's mass market of graphics card intensive games), I can also appreciate why it's like that... every single shot in the game is tracked and rendered realistically, dealing damage on a did-it-really-hit basis, as opposed to a simpler dice roll. I would like to see if someone can cook up a mod to switch hit detection to dicerolls, though, if only to see how much better it performs.
The other thing SupCom did that struck me as being a gamble was the older idea of making the game's max settings, or in this case 8 player 81kmX81km matches, playable on a PC from the future; TA was like that, and it allowed the game to age gracefully as systems upgraded, since it could then do so too.
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Offline Mefustae

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Just my luck, the demo installer is acting weird.

It unzips normally, but instead of bringing up the installer, it connects to the internet and tries to install ModToaster!! Regardless of how thoroughly I scour my system of all references, it still tries to install ModToaster!

Oh Great Gods of the RTS genre, why do you tease me so?

 

Offline Fineus

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Sandwich - FYI - The Ion Cannon actually does quite a wide area effect damage compared to what it used to do. It's far more of a nuke-scale weapon now, rather than the surgical strike tool it used to be.

You can take that as a plus or a minus. It certainly deals out a lot more death and it looks fantastic whilst it does it. That said.. overkill?

 

Offline IceFire

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Certainly not overkill.  The original Ion Cannon's from the previous two games were very underwhelming.  You wait all that time and your super weapon damages a building (in C&C) or takes one small to medium building out (C&C2).  Sure it was useful to basically be assured of that buildings destruction but that aside it was not worth the cost and wait.  Now, finally, its worth the wait...its on the same level as the weather control device or some of the nukes.

I know some people hate this but C&C3 is the logical evolution of the series.  It wasn't made or marketed as a revolution.  Some of the gameplay dynamics are old yes but I do happen to like those dynamics.  More of the same but with new features and refinement and thats good.  Sounds like Supreme Commander is totally different and definitely in a good way but I think there is room for both.
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Offline Nix

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My impressions exactly, That's what an ion cannon should have done.  It's much more satisfying, instead of a small "boost" to help the infantry and tanks wearing down the construction yard, or temple of nod in the first one.  Tiberian Sun? Generals? no... Sure, ya might like it as a "surgical strike" tool, but honestly, a gigantic satellite orbiting the earth should do more damage than barely weaken a few buildings.  Death from above.  Yes.   

That being said, I'm actually impressed, along with everyone's input here.  My God...  Hell just might actually get a little chilly this spring!