[Sarafan]

This is something I've been considering the past few days, its simple.  Instead of being technologic superior like they seem to be at first, could the shivans have stolen human and vasudan techonolgies? During the Great War they were on the same level as the GTA/PVN (with the sole exception of shields) and suddenly 32 years later they appear again with technologies like our own? Why? How?

Things like beam cannon, flak turrets, etc, could've been stolen from the GTVA without most people knowing it (only people like the SOC and GTVI would know). Perhaps Bosch could've been colaborating with them for much longer than it seems.

''But what about all those Sathanas, Ravanas and every capital ship with beam cannons? They take time to build!''

The Shivans probably have a huge capacity to build ships and would've been doing this nonstop since the end of the first Great War and older ships could be refitted with the new weapons (much like the Leviathan/Fenris were upgraded).

So what do you think?

[Snail]

Personally (really, really, really), I hate that theory.

I do agree about the flak gun but not anything else there.

Nothing against you, just I don't like the theory. At all.

[Sarafan]

Personally (really, really, really), I hate that theory.

I do agree about the flak gun but not anything else there.

Nothing against you, just I don't like the theory. At all.

Dont worry, there's no problem.

[Einstine909]

if that were so, how did the Shivans beat the Ancients? IIRC the Ancients had a huge empire, and a quote from one of the Ancient's monologues "they just wouldn't die." The Shivan's wouldn't have had a chance to lose to a force like that and still come back. I agree with your theroy, but up to a point.

 also could have just added those weapons because they wanted to add more to the game...

[Cobra]

This is something I've been considering the past few days, its simple.  Instead of being technologic superior like they seem to be at first, could the shivans have stolen human and vasudan techonolgies? During the Great War they were on the same level as the GTA/PVN (with the sole exception of shields) and suddenly 32 years later they appear again with technologies like our own? Why? How?

Things like beam cannon, flak turrets, etc, could've been stolen from the GTVA without most people knowing it (only people like the SOC and GTVI would know). Perhaps Bosch could've been colaborating with them for much longer than it seems.

''But what about all those Sathanas, Ravanas and every capital ship with beam cannons? They take time to build!''

The Shivans probably have a huge capacity to build ships and would've been doing this nonstop since the end of the first Great War and older ships could be refitted with the new weapons (much like the Leviathan/Fenris were upgraded).

So what do you think?

I'm sorry, but I personally think you're a moron because of that statement. If you played FS1, you would note that in the Plato mission's (for the love of god, why can't i remember the name?!) debriefing, Wolf states that the Shivan's weapons are far superior to that of any weapon in the GTA and PVE arsenal. The Lucifer already had beam weaponry, so they couldn't have stolen it from us. The flak guns could have been a hidden weapon until the second incursion on the Shivan's part, and if you think they stole it from us, explain why there weren't any reports of Shivan activity whatsoever for about 30 years after Silent Threat?

[Snail]

That's the main reason why I don't like this theory.

But I do agree with Flak since it was the basis of one of my (and FSFreak's)(now stagnant) mods. The Shivans had info on the flak gun, and were using the comm. nodes to transmit the data back to Shivan command.

[neoterran]

This is something I've been considering the past few days, its simple.  Instead of being technologic superior like they seem to be at first, could the shivans have stolen human and vasudan techonolgies? During the Great War they were on the same level as the GTA/PVN (with the sole exception of shields) and suddenly 32 years later they appear again with technologies like our own? Why? How?

Things like beam cannon, flak turrets, etc, could've been stolen from the GTVA without most people knowing it (only people like the SOC and GTVI would know). Perhaps Bosch could've been colaborating with them for much longer than it seems.

''But what about all those Sathanas, Ravanas and every capital ship with beam cannons? They take time to build!''

The Shivans probably have a huge capacity to build ships and would've been doing this nonstop since the end of the first Great War and older ships could be refitted with the new weapons (much like the Leviathan/Fenris were upgraded).

So what do you think?

I'm sorry, but I personally think you're a moron because of that statement. If you played FS1, you would note that in the Plato mission's (for the love of god, why can't i remember the name?!) debriefing, Wolf states that the Shivan's weapons are far superior to that of any weapon in the GTA and PVE arsenal. The Lucifer already had beam weaponry, so they couldn't have stolen it from us. The flak guns could have been a hidden weapon until the second incursion on the Shivan's part, and if you think they stole it from us, explain why there weren't any reports of Shivan activity whatsoever for about 30 years after Silent Threat?

I think calling someone a moron for some theory about a game is a little bit harsh.

[Cobra]

It just bugs me when someone doesn't follow the facts.

[Sarafan]

If you disagree with it, fine but there's no need to call me a moron. I've played FS1 lots of times and know that. The weapons of the Lucifer are different from the beam cannons, it uses Flux Cannons. Why nobody noticed?  Who knows? The Shivans could've used stealth, maybe using a captured fighter the same way the GTA used the captured Dragon, maybe they struck fast and left no survivors or the GTVI and SOC covered up everything, its just a theory.

if that were so, how did the Shivans beat the Ancients? IIRC the Ancients had a huge empire, and a quote from one of the Ancient's monologues "they just wouldn't die." The Shivan's wouldn't have had a chance to lose to a force like that and still come back. I agree with your theroy, but up to a point.

 also could have just added those weapons because they wanted to add more to the game...

Perhaps they had a less powerfull weapons than the Shivans (plus the Shivan's greater numbers) as such they would appear as invicible to them.

It just bugs me when someone doesn't follow the facts.

What facts? Tell me why did the Shivans only used a fleet without beam weapons and flak against the GTA/PVN in the first war? If they had them all along why not send a Sathanas already?

[Bob-san]

Don't forget about the theory that said beams were communication and the Sathanas was a keg of beer!!

Anyways...
The Flak makes sense, though we definately stole beam tech from them... the Shivans would be able to scan, from in subspace, our ships. Why do you think they're all so superior to ours? they probably know every design that has ever entered subspace, including complete specs, full-detail tech diagrams, etc. From the first ship we put flak on, they probably had the design... they would likely test it out a bit; find out how lethal it is. They find it's effective and decide to use it!

Why waste the big firepower? Would the GTVA send in the Colossus against a wing of fighters? I think not!

[Arkangel]

Wasn't the Lucifer fleet merely a scouting party? Why would you equip a scouting party with the Greatest weapons in your arsenal?
  In FS2 we treaded (trod?) on Shivan space so we were closer to their home, which no doubt incorperates their most sophisticated weapons.

  If we venture further into their space in future rleases (god be praised) then no doubt we will see the Shivans with more deadlier weapons than ours.
This could just be a coincidence in the plot but it makes sense... to me.

[CaptJosh]

Remember, the Shivans are not insane. There is method to their actions. Method beyond what we truly comprehend, but method nonetheless.

[Snail]

I dont like the idea of the Shivans being a completely xenocidal race which wants to kill everything not Shivan. I like to think of them as a planning, strategically thinking species.

[Sarafan]

Why waste the big firepower? Would the GTVA send in the Colossus against a wing of fighters? I think not!

Why run the risk of being defeated like they were? Maybe not using a Sathanas but at least beam weapons on a Lilith or on their destroyers wich are the second important ships they have (the first one being the Lucifer). And yes, the GTVA would do that. And it would lose.

I dont like the idea of the Shivans being a completely xenocidal race which wants to kill everything not Shivan. I like to think of them as a planning, strategically thinking species.

And a species such as that (a planning, strategically thinking species) wouldnt pass up the oportunity to acquire two great new weapons, would it? The GTA/PVN didnt.

[CaptJosh]

Again, they ALREADY HAD BEAM WEAPONS. They only possibly reverse engineered weapon design they might have is flak cannon.

[Bob-san]

The GTVA would me more likely to send in a bashed-up Fenrish infront of the Lucifer... and expect Alpha 1 to protect it...


I can only remember a quote... not where it is from.... "you mean you actually propel those with a stream of gases? We'd never think of doing that!" from some assorted sci-fi, probably SG...

Civilizations think of different things... you can't expect human invention to able to cover the zenith of diversity; we have a limited sight on things... odds are aliens won't recognize all our tech (and think some innovative) and we won't recognize all their tech (and think much innovative).

[CaptJosh]

Kind of like Jack O'Neal explaining the difference between a Staff weapon (a weapon of terror) and his P-90 (a weapon of war) to that one group of rebel Jaffa, who had never thought of it that way.

[Snail]

And a species such as that (a planning, strategically thinking species) wouldnt pass up the oportunity to acquire two great new weapons, would it? The GTA/PVN didnt.

They didn't. I say the Shivans already had all that. The only thing they didn't have was the Flak gun. Which they stole from GTI R&D (or GTVI, since this would probably be after the GTI Rebellion... but probably before the formation of the GTVA).

[neoterran]

Kind of like Jack O'Neal explaining the difference between a Staff weapon (a weapon of terror) and his P-90 (a weapon of war) to that one group of rebel Jaffa, who had never thought of it that way.

references to StarGate are illegal.

[Snail]

"can we close the iris yet?"
"for the last time, it is NOT a stargate now shut up before we get sued!"

Ah, JAD.