[Vash]

in my opinion it's not FRED itself that is too difficult. only the making of events is hard at first. then again, im like my best friend. i never read a manual. i just start out as hard as possible, find out that it's very difficult and than start over just as long until i get something right (still haven't succeded yet but i have hope)

[Tolwyn]

but you should - the fred manual will teach you how to plan a mission correctly!

[Darklord42]

I like that name. "Battle of Endor Syndrome"  If you think about  it, in all actuallity,  it is kind of far fectched that a single fighter would have a major effect on the battle anyway, though true it is more fun that way .  Though I guess there is a time for it though, such as, you are mostly focusing on storyline and ending/beginning your campaign with a bang like a starwars movie to envlop the player in the total  massivness an actual confilct. I don't know if you have ever seen lines and troopmovments in actual battles, but an awful lot goes on all over a huge expanse. Sometimes it might be in a campaign's best interest to bring that across to give the player the feeling,  that yes he/she (Who am I kidding? HE!) can be god, but give the impression that they are indeed part of something bigger. Afterall, storyline can be just as important as gameplay. I guess we are all familiar with the Halo 2 Syndrome   Though the reverse can easily be true too.  I guess what I'm suggesting is the ballance between the two.

[karajorma]

There's a difference between having a major effect and having any effect at all though. It's a rather subtle problem though and it's quite hard to see until you've played a lot of BoE missions or tried making one yourself.

 Perhaps I should stop warning of the problems and let people find them for themselves. It only takes a few hours\days for most people to make their first missions in FRED and the experience they'll gain doing it will be useful later on even if the mission does turn out to have flaws

[Mancubus]

well i like the name too 
the funny thing is than in battle of Endor one fighter made a HUGE difference (ya know, thaa A-Wing that crushed into Executors' bridge  )

[Darklord42]

after constant fire from all the rebel ships finnaly nocked out the sheilds

[Starman01]

While this camikaze (spell?) action was one of my favourite scenes (the actor really played great in that part) does anyone else find it strange that a ship of that enourmous size got out of control and crashed because it's bridge was toasted ? That's something I always disliked in in SciFi Games (escpecially WCP  )

[gevatter Lars]

I think that their are surely backup systems for the case that the bridge is taken out...exept the empire thought that this would never happen ^_^
Still we don't know how fast a backup system would jump in and take over the controle if the bridge is taken out. Then the DS might generate quite a gravimateric pull.
Well whatever its all speculation but a fighter/bomber taking out specific areas can be a vital point in battle. Like when they take out the engines, turrets or shield generators...stuff like that...to open up a chance for bigger ships or bombers to do the kill.

[Turey]

I think that their are surely backup systems for the case that the bridge is taken out...exept the empire thought that this would never happen ^_^
Still we don't know how fast a backup system would jump in and take over the controle if the bridge is taken out. Then the DS might generate quite a gravimateric pull.
Well whatever its all speculation but a fighter/bomber taking out specific areas can be a vital point in battle. Like when they take out the engines, turrets or shield generators...stuff like that...to open up a chance for bigger ships or bombers to do the kill.

Several of the EU books (X-Wing series comes to mind) mention a backup bridge on almost all larger ships.

[Aginor]

speaking of bridges.....

It would be better to place the bridge inside the ship and not in an outer part, because in space you can't see a thing when looking out the window. And it would be better in order not to get blown away by kamikazes or something else that destroys the outer hull first.

Does anyone know Perry Rhodan?  They have those spaceships built as spheres with the bridge deep inside the ship. That makes sense.

[gevatter Lars]

Or like the new BSG where the CIC is also inside the ship. Strangly WC CIC is also inside the ship...still the bridge is "outside" and more vonurable.

As for Perry Rhodan...I have seen these ships. Indeed it makes more sense but does it look good? ^_^
Beside that Borg cubes are also usefull in that way. No wasted room...what you most likely have in a sphere.

Still when it comes to spaceship designs it all about style und fun and not if its practical or usefull.

[Phenix]

I was wondering if there is somewhere a more "extensive" document on how to create missions for wc saga with fred
 I downloaded fred and it doesn't say anything about how to get it running...do i need the to place it in saga directory or what?
Also, i it looks a little bit complicated to start with......i am used to make missions in warcraft and a few other games....but here there is no manual or any clue what to do...some things are easy and obvious, others  are 
is there a thread or a forum where it explains a little. Thanks for any info in advance.

[karajorma]

Hmmmmm. Information on how to do stuff with FRED. Now who would have a thing like that comprising about half of their FAQ?

Seriously though getting started with FRED is as simple as sticking it in the WCS folder. When you run it it will then give you a pop up explaining how to make the shortcut you need to run it in HTL mode.

After that (if the WCS boys have any sense) you'll be able to go to the help menu and call up the FS2 FRED walkthrough. You may be able to make the mission it describes using WCS ships but even if you can't that walkthrough will teach you almost everything you need to know to start making missions. If they haven't included the FREDdocs you can get them from my FAQ.

If you have any questions about how to do stuff once you've read the games help come and ask. We're all quite friendly here.

[Starman01]

(if the WCS boys have any sense)

Looks like we didn't had any    In the release Fred wasn't included, so no documentation either. But that's why we made this news here, it's linked in the first post.

But like Kara said, everyone having questions come here or in the other forums, there is lot of stuff, tutorials and friendly (newbie approved) people around here that can help

[karajorma]

The FRED forum for instance is a goldmine of useful info. And I will point out again that most of my FAQ is largely relevant to WCS as well as FS2.


I was including the stuff from the first post in my estimation of your intelligence. I just couldn't be bothered to go back and check.

[AlekTrev006]

On the Executor  commentary - yes...they do have a backup bridge / engine-room etc. onboard the command-ship.....BUT....as one of you noted earlier, the fact is...the impact, explosion, and loss of helm control / engines / etc. happened so suddenly - that there was ...what...1-minute ?  - mabye less ?  - for the crew to react and do anything...and they were in the midst of being peppered from heavy fire from all surviving Rebel capital ships (I think the Rebs had 2 Mon-Cal Cruisers still left at that point, plus several frigates and light cruisers, and several hundred fighter craft too - so Executor, mighty though she was, was really getting the crap kicked out of her).

And the key as to "why does it sink down ?" - is, as someone said, that the Death Star's gravity was so intense, it rapidly pulled the massive ship into it - remember the DS-II was even LARGER than the 1st Death Star - I think the canon-numbers listed for DS-II are 160,000 Km - across (total circumference) - that's appx. the size of the state of Ohio in the USA.   So look at a map of US...look at Ohio...and imagine a big globe / circle laying completely over the state and coming off the sides of its borders by a bit.   That's how big the man-made Death Star II was !!!!!! 


So the gravity for that thing, was quite monstrous - esp. when the Executor was in such close-orbit of the station to begin with - it didn't really have far to "fall" before impact and complete destruction.   

[gevatter Lars]

From what I remeber the Executor was so close that it was nearly under its own length in distance.

[MarkN]

My theory about the Executor was that the destruction of the bridge affected the engine controls so that they suddenly went to a full burn powering it in to the death star with no time for the crew in the backup bridge to do anything about it.

[AlekTrev006]

Exactly.  They probably had the ship putting off some thrust simply to keep "above" the Death Star ....since the primary controls for the Engines, Weapons, Helm, Shields, Comm, etc. are all on the primary bridge (which on the Executor was a massive room bigger even than  the ones shown on the Vesuvius and Thrakkath's flagship, the Dreadnought Hvar'Kann).


So when that all got blown to bits ....as Gev-Lars points out, they were SO close to start, that the pull of DS-II dragged them down almost instantly, just like you see in "real time" on-screen as you watch the film.

In any case, that whole Endor thing was one of the coolest "sequences" in all of Sci-Fi.   Now if only the Prequels could have been....................... 

[gevatter Lars]

Well the battle above Curussant was also nice but to short.