[JGZinv]

I've been playing around with ideas the last few days and
haven't been able to find much search-wise so far - so I'll just ask.

Is there a way of going about making physical weapons for FS2?

I'm looking at things along the order of side mounted beam sabers, large knives,
jousting weapons, harpoons, hand held objects, rams, daggers, etc etc. "Stick it to em" in a manner of
speaking.

I'm thinking about these across the board - mod wise, uses elseware or perhaps future plans.
I know about the gravity issue, and all the science that can prove why it "shouldn't"
be done... but let's just say it was anyway.  I'm both an anime fan and a sci-fi fan, that
combined alone nullifies all the known laws of physics and common sense. 

From what I can think of, perhaps make a weapon model - then have it so it's set as a laser
with a extremely short distance across a wide span? Then set the hit damage high... so you'd have to come
in close contact with the object to receive damage? Ah set the refire rate high as well to create the always on
effect along with either little energy usage and/or a high amount of craft weapons energy?

Or perhaps some creative use of the collision system?

Would any of that work?

[Bobboau]

if you don't mid it only being on for a fixed amount of time, then a beam weapon with a short length would probly fit your bill.

[Getter Robo G]

I tried it (oops on MY outdated build 3.6) .. NM

I guess it works now with convergence fire huh.

Otherwise my only hope would be a frontal pointing thrust type beam saber.

[JGZinv]

Alright, so a beam saber-ish weapon would be possible over a limited duration.
Although that could probably be circumvented....   

Now can this apply for the rest of the weapon types - ideas there?
Give the laser an invisible graphic for the "beam" so it wouldn't show up?

Basically I want to be able to "hit" an opponent with something and cause a
predetermined amount of damage. Not just beam sabers.

If it helps, think destruction derby....

[Getter Robo G]

you don't need a graphic, I found out a weapon will work invisible if you misname the texture and there is no corresponding pcx in the effect or maps folder (at least with my early build)...

Hmm I frogot if that works for primaries I might be on crack.. I KNOW it applies to secondaries..

[Bobboau]

and then it will randomly crash, it'd be better to use a pof witout any geometry, or invisible geometry

[Nuke]

well i take it this is for a gundam type thing. in that situation id make havy use of scripting to provide control for arms and other limbs. id actually model the whole gundam, beam saber and all. all parts would be in proper hierarchy so that their orientations may be manipulated through script. then with some fancy math id check to see if the saber submodel at any point crosses into the target's model radius. at that point id subtract some hitpoints from the enemy. as far as i know, all that can be done now.

[takashi]

i made such a weapon.

short lifetime+laser+super high fire rate+silver color=what looks like a sword sticking out of your ship, but its realy a stream of lasers going so fast and dying 10 meters out that it produces an illusion.

and i wont give you the table entry. its confidential mod material.

[JGZinv]

As I mentioned before, I'm looking across the board as to uses.
I'm sure GRG can use the help there in relation to his projects, it's just
a helpful side effect.

My idea pertains to other mechanoids, fighters, ships, etc.
Nothing from one particular series, movie, concept, etc.

Beam sabers are not the only thing out there that you can bludgeon an enemy with
on land, sea, sky, or space.    Thankfully. 

Dropping back to Nuke's Gundam scripting example - that sounds like the best way to do it all around.
Wouldn't a simple use of the moving objects ability that was an extension of the turret scripting
(or something like that) be able to mimick say arm movements on a set track?

Maybe that's not a good example... ah...
Ok how bout if you spread the arms out away from the body, and you want them to wave
or repeat a motion - either reaching in or flexing up and down? Would that not be simpler?
Only thing then - might be that it would look rather silly if the unit stopped in place...
I guess it's all or nothing, it still would involve subobjects...

But I'm not going pure beam saber or heat axe or whatever from the Gundam universe(s).
I'm looking at options beyond that realm. It just happens to be in there with "beam saber"
because unless you say lightsaber or that other one... you have to go into a long winded explanation
on plasma swords and things to get the same concept out on the table for discussion.

Edit: takashi, thank you for mentioning it was possible due to your experimentation.
However I believe I would have to customize my weapons to suit my own purposes anyway.

[Nuke]

well im confident that a battletech mod is 100% possible with scripting. ive done with turrets, but i think it would be possible to do more complex multijoint mechanics.

really theres of room for improvement to get this working better. in subobject rendering, and model converters. as it stands using of subobject creates more render passes and slows performance. model converters need more work. pcs is adequit for truespace users but when you have to convert into that format its not so good. my move to max has really showed me the limits of model conversion. the max converter lacks support for complex heirarchy, which is nessicary for subobject animation (wether scripted or through the builtin animation functionality).

[bizzybody]

Giant cricket bats for knocking bombs away from your ship...    

[Getter Robo G]

1.) Well NUKE I sort of herded Gai Daigoji your way (I mentioned you used the animation code for other things successfully and since he's doing Gudnam SEED... U guessed it he's explorign physical stuff also) so expect a message on GW...

Sorry! 


2.) Takashi, you must be a genius to figure that out in 2 days since you just learned how to edit a table (from my post). I bow before your 7eet skills.

(now lets see it really work) 

Anyway... anyone else got some input? Experiences?

[JGZinv]

There's nothing with the collision system that will do what we are looking at correct?

Like to be able to say if a certain object type connects with a hull that that would create
a specifiable amount of damage - separate from the regular collision type damage?

[Nuke]

id like some collision detection functions in scripting. but i think the model radius would be more that enough for most stuff.

[JGZinv]

Well I didn't remember it till just now, but you've likely got the possibility
of using ships with arms....

http://web.archive.org/web/20060515021218/http://tgwp.evilnet.net/~jhfong/probe/Models/Gallery/page47/outlaw6.jpg

http://encyclopedia.quickseek.com/images/Outlaw_star05.jpg

Which in that ship's case were called grappler arms, which could wield whatever was necessary.

I made this up to try and possibly illustrate the saber idea on a normal ship.
Granted the ship's probably the ugliest thing this side of a black hole... add in
a few other things to contribute to it's downfall - but hopefully it will spring up more ideas.
Didn't have any other models handy either...

files.fringespace.org/jgz/Misc/ShipSaber.jpg

[Bobboau]

short beams with a short lifetime is something that has not been well explored, I have a fighter beam that is really fun, it has like a two second warm up, is on for  less than half a second and has a range less than 300 meters, but if you do manage to hit something with it it does insane damage.

[NGTM-1R]

The problem with physical weapons, is, well, aiming. The FS control setup does not allow much in the way of simulating arm motion.

[Turey]

i made such a weapon.

short lifetime+laser+super high fire rate+silver color=what looks like a sword sticking out of your ship, but its realy a stream of lasers going so fast and dying 10 meters out that it produces an illusion.

and i wont give you the table entry. its confidential mod material.

But I'll give him the one I made in thirty minutes.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,45759.0.html

The best way of doing "Jousting" is to turn on Glide. Aim just to the right of the other ship, hit your burners, turn on glide, and rake the lasers across them when you pass.

[JGZinv]

I've been watching your thread there Turey.
I'm not sure it's the same as what I was going for though.
That appears to be a short range, rapid shot, forward firing laser with high damage.
The example I gave in the image was more like a side mounted cutting beam
sticking straight out with a short/med distance and always turned on.

Really I'd be going with either our final result in the way of "feel" and controls
from the Tachyon mod, and/or having individual setups and "feel" for specialized craft anyway.

Reasons being -

1. The regular FS missions I have played, fly like bricks. It's comparatively slow.
That's no jab at anyone, that's simply how I view plain FS missions.
Tach's system is different and relies more on lats and the ability to move
quickly in any direction. Thus "slide slashing" would be more effective or perilous
in fast close combat.

2. If you have multiple types of craft, fighters, mechanoids, larger ships, it stands
to reason they'd all play differently anyway. Something with arms is not going to best
suited towards the exact same controls as a standard ship. Plus if you're going for authentic
controls, everything is different to begin with. There's also mouse vs. joystick
players to consider.

Which everyone knew that already, I'm just stating it for the newbs that follow in our footsteps