[Col. Fishguts]

Opinions of people who use Turdspace for modeling do not matter.

Also, you're not up to date what the bottlenecks of the engine are. (Namely textures, number of textures per model, but not polygons)

[tomcat]

who told you I am using TrueSpace ..

[Turambar]

http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=02222007newpylonshc7.jpg

that's BTRL's battlestar Pegasus.  right now, it's at 130k polies.  it will be an in-game model


we don't have too much.

[Col. Fishguts]

who told you I am using TrueSpace ..

You're mom told me last night.

[tomcat]

neh... is not possible

BSG will be part of Powerpoint presentation

[chief1983]

Hey, it's got a lot more detail already on it than I think you realize.  But a 20 or 30k model will work fine in game these days.  Now, back to progress.  He sent me this one last night.



I just can't wait for him to start on the bridge area.

[aldo_14]

On this (vague) subject, I'd like someone to describe exactly how in hell you're supposed to edit a >30k model in modelview.....

[chief1983]

Uh, use PCS?  And the Max 8 POF Exporter.  Might not even need to use modelview for editing.  The textures wouldn't show up anyway, so you could do it in solid or mesh mode ok probably.

[minilogoguy18]

hahah you guys obviously dont know much about next generation game design if your craming that many polies into a model that could do far less and make it look just as good. all new games use character models at say 3 k polies at the VERY MOST, the rest is all normal mapping to give the models detail. the game is gonna go really downhill once you have a couple of those things on screen at once being rendered, LODs or no, then you have to figure all the fighters. according to what im hearing the coders are working on implementing normal mapping into the engine so you might as well start doing your models the right way because probably before yoour even done it should already be in the engine.

http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/tour/video_tour.aspx?video_id=8

theres a nice normal mapping example for ya.

[chief1983]

Yeah, but how do you get the normal maps?  With high-detail sources they can be generated, and then the models could be cut down somewhat.  That's assuming it does end up being necessary to cut them down, but I think they'll work fine in game as is.

[Cobra]

hahah you guys obviously dont know much about next generation game design if your craming that many polies into a model that could do far less and make it look just as good. all new games use character models at say 3 k polies at the VERY MOST, the rest is all normal mapping to give the models detail. the game is gonna go really downhill once you have a couple of those things on screen at once being rendered, LODs or no, then you have to figure all the fighters. according to what im hearing the coders are working on implementing normal mapping into the engine so you might as well start doing your models the right way because probably before yoour even done it should already be in the engine.

http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/tour/video_tour.aspx?video_id=8

theres a nice normal mapping example for ya.

While your criticism would be accepted here, remember that these guys aren't trying to create a next-generation game.

[aldo_14]

Uh, use PCS?  And the Max 8 POF Exporter.  Might not even need to use modelview for editing.  The textures wouldn't show up anyway, so you could do it in solid or mesh mode ok probably.

PCS is a pain in the tits, and Max 4 exporter isn't exporting some key stuff properly (name gun turrets).  And textures should, IIRC, show up in pcx mode if need be.

hahah you guys obviously dont know much about next generation game design if your craming that many polies into a model that could do far less and make it look just as good. all new games use character models at say 3 k polies at the VERY MOST, the rest is all normal mapping to give the models detail. the game is gonna go really downhill once you have a couple of those things on screen at once being rendered, LODs or no, then you have to figure all the fighters. according to what im hearing the coders are working on implementing normal mapping into the engine so you might as well start doing your models the right way because probably before yoour even done it should already be in the engine.

http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/tour/video_tour.aspx?video_id=8

theres a nice normal mapping example for ya.

Hmm, does FSO presently support normal mapping?

No.

Thank you for your contribution.

[chief1983]

Actually, minilogo does have a point in that we are planning ahead for the future by making models equipped to create normal maps.  However they should function in game at the detail we want to achieve without normal mapping and still look and perform great.

Also, we're going to be using DDS textures which are not supported by any of pof tools that I know about, and can only be previewed on the pof in game.  The only other option I can think of would be to create a pcx texture set simply for testing in a pof editor.  But either way, modelview is too unstable with most models, causing memory leaks in edit mode left and right, I have to have task manager open keeping tabs on the memory usage and restart it every time it approaches 100mb.  After that it seems guaranteed to crash or corrupt the model.  But it's still the only one I know of that actually shows the engine normals.  I just don't like to use it when I don't have to.

[aldo_14]

Actually, minilogo does have a point in that we are planning ahead for the future by making models equipped to create normal maps.  However they should function in game at the detail we want to achieve without normal mapping and still look and perform great.

Also, we're going to be using DDS textures which are not supported by any of pof tools that I know about, and can only be previewed on the pof in game.  The only other option I can think of would be to create a pcx texture set simply for testing in a pof editor.  But either way, modelview is too unstable with most models, causing memory leaks in edit mode left and right, I have to have task manager open keeping tabs on the memory usage and restart it every time it approaches 100mb.  After that it seems guaranteed to crash or corrupt the model.  But it's still the only one I know of that actually shows the engine normals.  I just don't like to use it when I don't have to.

He's using a tone that implies people are idiots for not working on the assumption of a feature which isn't present and may never be.  I find that pretty insulting and arrogant, which tends to spark me off.  Particularly because he (or she, I suppose?) is effectively laughing ('hahah') at me and others, which tends to bring me into a punchy-punchy mood.

Nice work, turambar

[tomcat]

He's using a tone that implies people are idiots

statistically that  tends to be accurate

[brandx0]

With the ISD I'm not building it to use Normal maps, and why not?  Because we don't have them..

Just seems silly to build a mod around a feature that isn't implimented, and may not be for years to come, if at all.

So in the mean time, I'll stick to a high poly model, just high enough that FS can put a few on screen at a time.  Combine that with effective LODing and detail boxes and I don't think we'll have a problem with these guys.  Besides, inefficient textures tend to slow the game down just as much if not more than high numbers of polies.

And if we do get normal maps, well then I'll have a high detail source from which to make normal maps, and can easily cut down my polies to the basic level and make up the detail with the normal map that I've generated

Either way, basically, the way we're doing it now, everyone wins.  The mod can be played without waiting on the SCP coders, and when they do get the feature in, it's a quick conversion to use it.

[Cobra]

Yer, not to mention they think we're trying to make a next-gen game.

[BS403]

On this (vague) subject, I'd like someone to describe exactly how in hell you're supposed to edit a >30k model in modelview.....

i've done it before you just need the right version

[chief1983]

On this (vague) subject, I'd like someone to describe exactly how in hell you're supposed to edit a >30k model in modelview.....

i've done it before you just need the right version

I've tried 3 and they're all unstable as hell.  If you have a stable one please send it to me.

[aldo_14]

On this (vague) subject, I'd like someone to describe exactly how in hell you're supposed to edit a >30k model in modelview.....

i've done it before you just need the right version

Which version, pray tell?  The inferno one I borrowed a while back just vomits at me.