[Herra Tohtori]

->m2258734a:

What kind of problems with DDS files do you have?

If you haven't already tried this, I suggest you download and install NVidia's DDS Utilities. They include (amongst other things) a batch converter to make DDS files from, for example, TGA files.

http://developer.nvidia.com/object/dds_utilities.html

After installing:

-Start -> Run -> cmd

-Navigate to the directory where your files to be converted are

-invoke nvDXT by command line:

>nvdxt -file filename.extension -<compression type> -<quality setting> -<possible mipmap generation options> -<other>

The -file command line option can be used to convert for example one file, all TGA's (or other file type) in a directory (-file *.tga) or all files with certain beginning (-file effect*.* or -file map*.*) or, if need be, all files in the directory (-file *.*).

FS2_Open compatible compression formats are (AFAIK):

-dxt1a - simple colour maps, no transparency at all. Good for basic ship textures for example. Note the "a", it separates it from dxt1 which has one-bit transparency (IIRC). Also used by some effects that use additive blending instead of alpha blending (beams, subspace vortex etc.)
-dxt3 - has colour information and limited alpha channel for transparency.
-dxt5 - like the latter, but with full alpha channel for better blending if necessary.


For planets, DXT3 or DXT5 are the correct settings, depending on which looks better.

For quality setting, -quality_highest is advisable to be used. It makes the conversion take a bit longer but results in better quality results without affecting file sizes.

For ship textures I tend to prefer the -Gaussian mipmap generating too. Dunno if it actually makes any difference, though.


Then there are a plethora of other options that can be seen by just typing nvdxt, which prints an instruction page of it's usage.

 

[m2258734a]

I haven't finished touching up on the planet, (I still need to correct the color of the reflected light since Terran1 is part of an orange giant system) yet I made a DDS file (DXT5). The problem that I am having is that I am not too happy with the atmosphere's final appearance. I tried both file types at the highest quality and none of them are a significant improvement over the other appearance-wise. Applying the Gaussian filter doesn't help much either. Any ideas on how to fix the atmosphere?

[Herra Tohtori]

I usually put the most important atmosphere layers behind the surface layer of the planet. That takes care of the atmospheric glow that circles the planet. Then I add a copy of that layer to the top of all, but with low intensity and possibly either soft light, hard light or other layer modes... Play with the layer settings until you get a good looking atmospheric impression.

What exactly are you trying to do to it, and what part? The part that is over the planet, or the blurred edge that forms the atmospheric glow?

At any rate, it looks pretty good to me already. The clouds are much more cloudy than before, and the colours seem pretty good too.

[m2258734a]

Oops, sorry about that. What I meant to say is that I am not too happy with the quality of the image after DDS conversion. The attachment I provided in my last post was to show what I meant. The atmosphere becomes jagged, and no matter what I do I can't seem to correct this jaggedness. This is what I was having problems with before, and I was assuming that it was just me making a mistake somewhere during conversion. No filters seem to help much, and there's not much of a noticeable difference between DXT3 and DXT5. Any idea on what I should do?

Thanks for the advice on improving the planet's appearance; I am much more content with the appearance of this planet than the previous Terran1. After I read your post in the art section, it looks like I will be experimenting with gas giants again. 

[Admiral Nelson]

Ruh roh -- looks like a transparency issue:

Thanks for the advice on improving the planet's appearance; I am much more content with the appearance of this planet than the previous Terran1. After I read your post in the art section, it looks like I will be experimenting with gas giants again. 

Ah, but the other planets in Warzone are all rocky moons.... 

[Herra Tohtori]

Did you use this kind of command line:

>nvdxt -file Terran1.tga -dxt5 -quality_highest

If you used GIMP DDS plugin to save the DDS, I'm not surprized about the pixelation. nvDXT generally gives better image quality on that bolded setting.

Another thing you can try: increase the resolution to 1024x1024. I took a look at my planets that are converted to DDS, and the same jagged atmosphere is there too (but not to quite that extent), but when you increase the resolution, the scale of the jaggedness remains about same and this it looks smaller in the final image. And 1024x1024 is not too resource heavy for a background image.

Also, your final product should not have black background. It should be opaque where the planet's sphere exists, and the atmosphere should blend to empty space instead of black background. Putting that planet on top of nebulas will result in black box blocking the nebula images (and stars) from view, which you don't want.

I did an experiment, I used the DXT5 compression and -quality_high flag with 512x512 resolution planets. The atmosphere does become jagged but this planet has thicker atmospheric glow so it doesn't look that bad. Here are two pictures: The other one is before compression and the other is after compression, both are png images so what you see is what you get. Can you spot which has been compressed with nvDXT, without looking at file names?





Also, this is what the planet should look like when it's finished; atmosphere blending to transparency.

[m2258734a]

Oops. The image wasn't ready to be placed in-game yet.  I posted the image so you all could see what I was talking about when I was referring to the atmosphere of Terran1;)  I was going to ask about how I should deal with the transparency in a future post, but now I know what to do. I did use the quality_highest command, but I still got the jagged atmosphere. I'll see how I can fix it. Thanks.

Is the planet warped because of the field of vision settings you have used?

Ah, but the other planets in Warzone are all rocky moons.... 

I meant in general,    But hey, for any other campaign that needs restoration I would be glad to try to make some gas giants. I still need some practice.

I take the bright star in the background to be Gienah Cygni B. That's a dead on representation of the star's appearant brightness. Speaking of stars and such, I need to finish with the planet's lighting. Since Terran1 is habitable, it would have to be about 7.8 AU from Gienah Cygni A, since the giant star is about 61 times more luminous than the Sun. I don't want to make the planet too orange, otherwise it would not look like the habitable Earth-like planet that it is. I'll see what I can do.

EDIT: Is that your habitable moon, Herra? I really like the designs of your worlds; you should make planets for the campaigns, too.

[Herra Tohtori]

Since you already used the -quality_highest -card, your best bet is to simpy resize the planet to 200% with cubic interpolation and then see what the DDS compression does to the 1024 resolution image. Most likely that'll end up in good enough view.

Also... have you tried what happens if you try to convert it without the black background? Could be worth trying, too, but you'll need to check what it looks by copy-pasting it over a black layer after compression.

...or, if you can't get it into proper DDS, but it into game as a TGA. A 512x512 background image doesn't take too much resources anyway, regardless of if it's TGA, DDS or whatever.


If something is too difficult but there's another, only slightly inferior option, it can be the better option in the end... so don't bother too much with a DDS conversion. If it just looks crap as DDS and nothing can be done to prevent it, use TGA and be done with it. For example, if the only way to reduce pixelation is to increase resolution, you could be better off simply using the TGA, since it could be used at 512*512, and a TGA of that size will not likely use any more memory than 1024x1024 DDS anyway.

[Admiral Nelson]

I take the bright star in the background to be Gienah Cygni B. That's a dead on representation of the star's appearant brightness. Speaking of stars and such, I need to finish with the planet's lighting. Since Terran1 is habitable, it would have to be about 7.8 AU from Gienah Cygni A, since the giant star is about 61 times more luminous than the Sun. I don't want to make the planet too orange, otherwise it would not look like the habitable Earth-like planet that it is. I'll see what I can do.

Yeah its Gienah Cygni B, with Gienah Cygni A off screen to the right.  The planet is looking great, the original was tiny on screen.

[m2258734a]

Yeah... I've tried everything and I am still not very happy with the quality. I'll leave it as a 512x512 TGA file. I'm still trying to see how I can fix the lighting, but I can't think of a good technique at the moment. Any ideas on how I could effectively change the color of the reflection of light from the surface of Terran1?

Thanks, 

EDIT: I seem to be having difficulties trying to save the TGA image with a transparent background. As soon as I save the image my transparent background turns white. Is there anything in particular that needs to be done to the file prior to saving it as a TGA, or does the file need to be a saved as a different type?

[Herra Tohtori]

Well.. what program are you using to do it?

If GIMP, just make sure the edges have alpha of zero, and it should then automagically use the alpha channel in addition to RGB, to make a 32-bit TGA. In other programs... try for an option between 24/32-bit TGA, and select the 32-bit option.

[MP-Ryan]

Some more playtesting discoveries/comments:

Mission E1M4
-As already mentioned, the Equinox's delayed firing.
-More turret/spline errors.
-The debrief talks about what a great job you and your wingmen do, but it's rather easy to lose all your wingmen during the mission.  Maybe another goal should be added with a comment if all your wingmen die?

Mission E1M5
-The Gemini destroyed bonus objective triggered for me even when Gemini had not been destroyed (only one of the transports was).  Might have been some freakish thing, I didn't have time to replay it.

Mission E1M6
-Nothing in the debrief about losing the cruiser.  Probably should be (though it's probably also bloody hard to keep it alive, maybe just a comment in the debrief).

E2M1
-Command's transmission about speculation among your wingmen's chatter came in out of order.  Not a big deal.  probably just the way the events triggered.

E2M2
-Says something about Mintaka AB in the briefing.  I was wondering if AB was supposed to be the word "as."

E2M3 (And previous bombing missions).
-The Ptah is available.  I don't think it should be, especially during the bombing missions previous to this (M4, 5, 6)

E2M4
-Nothing.

E2M5
-Nothing

E2M6
-Capricorn keeps jumping in, even after you're ordered to return to base after the fleet arrives.
-The directives list obscures some of the more important ones.  Suggest a simple "Defend the Tatenen" and then a "Destroy Beam Turrets".  The defend covers the bombers, you don't need a directive for each of the half-dozen bomber wings that jumps in.

That's all so far.

[Admiral Nelson]

Some more playtesting discoveries/comments:

Mission E1M4
-As already mentioned, the Equinox's delayed firing.
-More turret/spline errors.
-The debrief talks about what a great job you and your wingmen do, but it's rather easy to lose all your wingmen during the mission.  Maybe another goal should be added with a comment if all your wingmen die?

You probably need the latest version of Vasudan Admiral's cruiser to get rid of the turret spline messages.  Perhaps a bonus goal for the wingmen and some rephrasing of the debriefing is best here.

Mission E1M5
-The Gemini destroyed bonus objective triggered for me even when Gemini had not been destroyed (only one of the transports was).  Might have been some freakish thing, I didn't have time to replay it.

Puzzling.  I'll have to try and reproduce.

Mission E1M6
-Nothing in the debrief about losing the cruiser.  Probably should be (though it's probably also bloody hard to keep it alive, maybe just a comment in the debrief).

E2M1
-Command's transmission about speculation among your wingmen's chatter came in out of order.  Not a big deal.  probably just the way the events triggered.

This is very odd, given how the events are set up.  However, all of these messages should really be in a single message list event anyways.
When you played this mission, did the GTC Nicolas survive?

E2M2
-Says something about Mintaka AB in the briefing.  I was wondering if AB was supposed to be the word "as."

Mintaka Ab is the second component of the system.  It is supposed to be the one the Shivan's destroyed.  I'll rephrase to make it clearer.

E2M3 (And previous bombing missions).
-The Ptah is available.  I don't think it should be, especially during the bombing missions previous to this (M4, 5, 6)

Makes sense.

E2M4
-Nothing.

E2M5
-Nothing

E2M6
-Capricorn keeps jumping in, even after you're ordered to return to base after the fleet arrives.
-The directives list obscures some of the more important ones.  Suggest a simple "Defend the Tatenen" and then a "Destroy Beam Turrets".  The defend covers the bombers, you don't need a directive for each of the half-dozen bomber wings that jumps in.

I'll look into these directives.


Thanks for all the comments!

EDIT
When cleaning out the Ptah, I noticed quite a few missions seem to allow the player to choose any amount of any weapon they want.  These will need to be adjusted to something sensible.

Mission E2M6 seems to have been conceived of as a TAG mission, as some friendly fighters have these (pointlessly) in their secondary banks.

[MP-Ryan]

I'm going to fire up E1M6 and E2M1 again in the simulator before I keep going.  I'll post more comments after I play them (maybe 30 mins to 1 hr from now).

[MP-Ryan]

OK...

In E1M6, we have the GTC Eleris, Leviathan-class.  It seems pretty much impossible to preserve it (if the Moloch doesn't nail it, the Ravanna does).  No mention in the debrief.  Might make sense to add a note about it's destruction.

Also in E1M6, you get a message from the Britannia about needing bomber support twice in a row when the Ravanna arrives.  Identical message both times.  Seems excessive =)

In E2M1, the GTC Nicholas warps in, but I'm so busy fighting off Dragons that I didn't see if the corvette nailed it or what.  It isn't present a few minutes later, which makes me think it either jumps out or gets destroyed... I'm guessing the latter.  The out of order transmissions are from command.  It tells you the Warlock destroyed a shivan vessel, then tells Alpha 2 to stop speculating.  Should be the other way around.

[Admiral Nelson]

OK...

In E1M6, we have the GTC Eleris, Leviathan-class.  It seems pretty much impossible to preserve it (if the Moloch doesn't nail it, the Ravanna does).  No mention in the debrief.  Might make sense to add a note about it's destruction.

Yeah, good catch.  The "let's party" debrief seems a bit much when the crew of this ship has just perished!

Also in E1M6, you get a message from the Britannia about needing bomber support twice in a row when the Ravanna arrives.  Identical message both times.  Seems excessive =)

Well, you get one message from BRITANNIA and one from generic command.

In E2M1, the GTC Nicholas warps in, but I'm so busy fighting off Dragons that I didn't see if the corvette nailed it or what.  It isn't present a few minutes later, which makes me think it either jumps out or gets destroyed... I'm guessing the latter.  The out of order transmissions are from command.  It tells you the Warlock destroyed a shivan vessel, then tells Alpha 2 to stop speculating.  Should be the other way around.

I see, the issue here is that the messages depend on certain wings being destroyed.  If they are destroyed out of the expected order, you may see messages that seem a bit odd.

[MP-Ryan]

One generic issue I've noticed throughout the campaign at this point
*Depart orders often come in before the area is secure on a successful mission.  It SHOULD force you to clear the area (otherwise you get run over by the Warlock, as in "The Ambush" ).  I've pointed it out where I remembered to note it, but there's a few missions I missed earlier that need their objectives revised to reflect that.  Seems awful silly to abandon allied warships and RTB when there's still enemy craft around.

Another issue that cropped up at the end:  maybe I fell asleep during the briefings, but they just suddenly started talking about hybrids without any introduction in the last 3 missions.  I was totally lost.  It needs an elaboration in the E3M3 briefing (one sentence just doesn't make an impression).  Here's the original (note I've copied and pasted a couple stages in sequence here):

The Vidar Project was the first project that the then Lieutenant Russik worked on.  It was a top secret operation being conducted by the rogue Galactic Terran Intelligence back in the era of the GTA.  The objective: to meld Terran and Shivan physiology into a single hybrid for use in conjunction with Shivan communications technology.

The GTE Vidar was the only ship of it's class produced.  It was designed along the lines of a Terran Explorer class, which is a very rare vessel.  The design is old, but we can deduce that since the GTI was crushed, the ship had been refitted.

Its exact communications capabilities are unknown.  However, it is believed that Admiral Russik integrated an ETAK device into Terran Shivan genetic hybrids on the ship, potentially giving it an unparalleled capability to communicate with the Shivans.

.

My suggestion (which hints at details discussed later in the campaign):

The Vidar Project was the first project that the then Lieutenant Russik worked on.  It was a top secret operation being conducted by the rogue Galactic Terran Intelligence back in the era of the GTA.  The objective was to meld Terran and Shivan physiology into a hybrid lifeform.  The hybrids would then be used in conjunction with experimental Shivan communications technology.  We suspect several may have actually been created.

The GTE Vidar was the only ship of it's class produced.  It was designed along the lines of a Terran Explorer class, which is a very rare vessel.  The design is old, but we can deduce that since the GTI was crushed, the ship had been refitted.

Its exact communications capabilities are unknown.  However, it is believed that Admiral Russik integrated an ETAK device into the Terran-Shivan genetic hybrids on the ship, potentially giving it an unparalleled capability to communicate with the Shivans.

.

The E3M4 briefing could also use some tweaking along the same lines.  Original (again, excerpt):

Lt. Commander Niven will also be in the area and will direct your actions.  Intelligence also speculates that Admiral Russik may attempt to communicate with the Shivans.  The Vidar and it's integrated ETAK technology with living beings may bridge the gap that Admiral Bosch had sought to jump.  Monitor the situation and record everything.

Suggested:

Lt. Commander Niven will also be in the area and will direct your actions.  Intelligence speculates that Admiral Russik may attempt to communicate with the Shivans.  The Vidar and it's Terran-Shivan hybrids coupled with integrated ETAK technology may well bridge the gap that Admiral Bosch sought to jump.  Monitor the situation and record everything.

The E3M5 briefing says Russik is on an Azrael transport, but in the mission it's an Argo making its way to the node.

The E3M7 briefing also has some problems.  Original:

After hours of intelligence work aboard the GTE Vidar, we have finally learned of Russik's final plan.

Russik believes that a single Terran-Shivan hybrid holds the power to control Shivan ships.  This theory is based on the idea that Shivans are controlled by a hive mind.

--

When he made contact with the Shivans, Russik not only contacted him, but he gained control of a small number of their forces.  Intelligence  believes that a central communications nexus in the Naos system may hold the key to his power over the Shivans.  With the Shivan forces at his control, he could take over the GTVA in a matter of months.

Suggestion:

After hours of intelligence work aboard the GTE Vidar, we have finally uncovered Russik's final plan.

Russik believes that a single Terran-Shivan hybrid is capable of controlling Shivan ships.  This theory is based on the idea that Shivans are controlled by a hive mind.

--

Russik not only contacted the Shivans, but he gained control of a small number of their forces.  Intelligence  believes that a central communications nexus in the Naos system may hold the key to his power over the Shivans.  With the Shivan forces at his control, he could take over the GTVA in a matter of mere months.

And, more testing:

E3M1 Contention of Power
-The Nethys CAN survive this engagement, and so when it gets destroyed and there's no mention in the debrief, it seems like Command is being even more unreasonable than usual.  Maybe add a protect Nethys goal?
-Needs a clear area before the depart order.

E3M2
-Ship selection seems a little wide here.  Otherwise, no problems.

E3M3
-The text transmission by Command at the beginning of the actual mission play misspelled communications (missed the first "i").
-Command keeps *****ing about the comm system even after it's destroyed until you also destroy the engine on the cruiser.  Simple matter of revising the messages to either have two, one for each system, or one message that's a countdown for BOTH subsystems (which would be fine, 3 minutes is enough time to both kill the comms and disable it).
-Again, you're ordered to depart even when enemy fighters are still present.  The warlock won't leave until they're all destroyed.

E3M4
-Alpha 2 is neurotic and talks to himself.  OK, so it should be another pilot either answering the questions at the beginning, or asking them.  Otherwise Alpha 2 seems a little bit nuts.

E3M5
-Vidar's cryochamber is misspelled as "cyrochamber" for all 6.
-It IS possible to save the Liberty, so the briefing should ***** at you if you don't.
-There are no directives in this mission.  There should be 4:  Protect Vidar, Protect Liberty, Destroy Bombers, Destroy Corvette (can't recall the name offhand).

E3M6
-Return to base order appears before the area is actually secured.

[Admiral Nelson]

OK...

In E1M6, we have the GTC Eleris, Leviathan-class.  It seems pretty much impossible to preserve it (if the Moloch doesn't nail it, the Ravanna does).  No mention in the debrief.  Might make sense to add a note about it's destruction.

So, I have made protecting the Eleris a bonus goal.  You only get the party debriefing if this ship survives.  I also added messages from the ship when it is heavily damaged, and a message from Command when it goes down.  It seems that Eleris was originally a Vasudan ship, changed sometime in development to a Leviathan.  I am debating making survival of the Britannia a mandatory goal.  The mission presently has no failure mode unless you just plain jump out early.  Thoughts?

[MP-Ryan]

OK...

In E1M6, we have the GTC Eleris, Leviathan-class.  It seems pretty much impossible to preserve it (if the Moloch doesn't nail it, the Ravanna does).  No mention in the debrief.  Might make sense to add a note about it's destruction.

So, I have made protecting the Eleris a bonus goal.  You only get the party debriefing if this ship survives.  I also added messages from the ship when it is heavily damaged, and a message from Command when it goes down.  It seems that Eleris was originally a Vasudan ship, changed sometime in development to a Leviathan.  I am debating making survival of the Britannia a mandatory goal.  The mission presently has no failure mode unless you just plain jump out early.  Thoughts?

Make the Britannia's survival mandatory.

[MP-Ryan]

Last one!

E3M7
-Russik's messages (at least at the beginning) appear as coming from Command, not him.
-Russik's in an Argo, which is OK if the briefing gets corrected (and the one in the earlier mission).
-Misspelling of "commission" as "commision" when you destroy the Ravana's main beams.
-The Ravana never shoots at the player.  I have no idea if this was intentional or not... the fighters make the mission difficult, but disarming the destroyer isn't hard at all.  More tedious than anything.  Honestly, this mission could be re-balanced so you fight the Ravana, but have to deal with much fewer fighters/bombers.  Also, the comm node trick (detonate the crystal, as found in retail "Into the Lion's Den") doesn't work, which I'm not sure if that's intentional or not.

That seems to be it.

I only paid passive attention to spelling and grammar, so I can go over it again once it's been revised.