Author Topic: Discussion - Dark Energy?  (Read 5477 times)

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Offline wEvil

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Discussion - Dark Energy?
Just been watching the TV (not something i normally do) and happened to watch a documentary on microwave background radiation and stipulating dark matter was actually real.

After digging up a little bit on quantum machanics and general relativity i found that Einstein had included a "cosmological constant" or a negative pressure to keep the universe expanding in order with Edwin Hubbles' observational data.

Is it possible that this "dark energy" is actually vacuum fluctiations, I.E, something akin to hawking radiation?


Lets have a little discussion here, people.


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Offline Thorn

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Discussion - Dark Energy?
I couldnt tell ya, cause I have no idea what youre talking about...
Probably shouldve payed more attention in physics....

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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Discussion - Dark Energy?
 
Quote
Originally posted by wEvil:
Is it possible that this "dark energy" is actually vacuum fluctiations, I.E, something akin to hawking radiation?


Lets have a little discussion here, people.



is that zero-point energy or something else?

[This message has been edited by Mr. Vega (edited 01-21-2002).]
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking.
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Offline Nico

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Discussion - Dark Energy?
mmh, you mean black matter? Well, if we knew, we would be eligible for the Nobel prize  
SCREW CANON!

 

Offline wEvil

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Discussion - Dark Energy?
Yes,

"virtual" particles fluctuating in and out of existance because you cant be sure they're NOT there.

You can be sure of an objects speed and direction, or its position.  You cannot be sure of both because the act of measuring is disturbs the particle.  So if the law holds..empty space shouldnt be empty at all.

Im also trying to get my head around supersymmetry and string theory but im finding it quite difficult  

 

Offline Styxx

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Discussion - Dark Energy?
I know the answer, but you won't believe me, so I won't say anything. Let's say that it involves a new type of particle, a new type of force, and a true unifying theory...

 
Probably away. Contact through email.

 

Offline wEvil

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Discussion - Dark Energy?
go on or i'll half your dose of spacecrak.

dun mess wid da deela!

 

Offline Styxx

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Discussion - Dark Energy?
You're not ready...

 

[This message has been edited by Styxx (edited 01-21-2002).]
Probably away. Contact through email.

 

Offline wEvil

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Discussion - Dark Energy?
Show me equations, einstein!

:P

And your theory does not explain anti-gravitic effects as observed by the acceleration of inflation in the large-scale universe.


[This message has been edited by wEvil (edited 01-21-2002).]

 

Offline Thorn

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Discussion - Dark Energy?
Bad business for the dealer to use his own product....
I vagueley remember discussing something like this is physics, but I think that was the day I gave blood, so I was all screwed up..

Teacher: It doesnt look like youre paying attention Rob..
Rob: *stares a teacher blankly for 10 minutes*

 

Offline Zeronet

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Dude, i was just watching that too, on channel Four?
Got Ether?

 

Offline Styxx

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Bah, I don't have a Physics degree. Computer Science makes more money. And I told you that you wouldn't believe me...    
Probably away. Contact through email.

 

Offline wEvil

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I dont have any degree at all (yet) so there :P

Zeronet, yep i was, but ive been reading up on it for a couple of months now as well (pity all the books are so out of date..)

Thorn, I totally agree.  Snortin' yaself outta da biznizz is bad.

 

Offline Zeronet

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I have a book, Just Six numbers. Its got Dark Matter etc in it, pretty uptodate.
Got Ether?

 

Offline IceFire

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My theory is that the universe is a very complicated but also very simple place.  Pure wisdom, zero scientific fact, 100% true, 100% untrue.  Great eh?  
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Offline Styxx

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Quote
Originally posted by wEvil:
And your theory does not explain anti-gravitic effects as observed by the acceleration of inflation in the large-scale universe.

Oh, yes, it explains. Just think a little bit harder about the "pressure zone" effects, and their relation with a possibly expanding universe...  
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Offline mikhael

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The virtual particle pairs that spontaneously form and disappear have an affect on the universe, but its not gravity and as such, probably cannot constitute the 'dark matter' that would be necessary to recollapse the universe. These particles do have an affect on the universe, however small. One effect (still theoretical, as there is no practical way to measure it) is through black hole evaporation. Another example (observable, predictable and measurable) is the Casimir Effect.

Personally, I'm betting on dark matter (should our universe be a closed system that will eventually recollapse or slow its expansion unto heat death) will be found in black holes, or possibly exotic (not in terms of energy) forms of matter that exist not in our 3+1 space, but in the rolled up dimensions predicted by string theory.

Remember, also, that Einstein introduced a cosmological constant to force the universe to be static (not to make it expand to match Hubble), as he felt that expansion was right out. It wasn't until much later that Hubbles' observations were explained sufficiently well that the cosmological constant had to be thrown out.

Zero point energy, for those who are curious, is the energy of a system at 0K. To quote Gribbin: "This minimum energy cannot be precisely zero because of quantum uncertainty. In Quantum Field Thoery, the lowest energy state of a field (its ground state) is also non-zero, for the same reason, giving the quantum vacuum a complex structure, which can be probed experimentally." One example of this complex structure is the aforementioned Casimir effect.



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Offline CP5670

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I'm also thinking that this "dark matter" might be what is created when the density of matter becomes infinite, kind of like the theoretical signularities that black holes collapse into.

 
Quote
Zero point energy, for those who are curious, is the energy of a system at 0K. To quote Gribbin: "This minimum energy cannot be precisely zero because of quantum uncertainty. In Quantum Field Thoery, the lowest energy state of a field (its ground state) is also non-zero, for the same reason, giving the quantum vacuum a complex structure, which can be probed experimentally." One example of this complex structure is the aforementioned Casimir effect.

That would be pretty interesting, since I think that any substance at 0K is supposed to have no mass and therefore no energy. (by e=mc²)

 

Offline mikhael

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Quote
Originally posted by CP5670:
...
 That would be pretty interesting, since I think that any substance at 0K is supposed to have no mass and therefore no energy. (by e=mc²)

The uncertainty principle doesn't allow it. You cannot know both the exact mass of a particle AND the exact energy of a particle at the same time. A particle has intrinsic locality: its position is known (if not, this thought experiment is pointless, as there is no particle to observe). A particle at 0K cannot have 0 energy, else it couldn't exist. Zero point energy is the quantum physics equivalent of i, the square root of -1. It exists, but its not real in the same way as the energy at 1K or the square root of 1.

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[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline wEvil

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I find that matter contained in rolled up dimensions has alot of promise.

However -

As soem theories state, if gravity waves can only propagate through 3+1 how could any matter existing in other dimensions provide an effect on ours?

How would we go about experimentally probing such a dimension as they can only be described mathematically through string theory?

Another interesting little point is 10 or 26 dimensional space STILL ONLY HAS ONE DIMENSION OF TIME.  does anyone have a descriptive list of what "rolled up" dimensions would exist? or are they currently just obscure lines of equations?