[Turey]

Might as well use this forum for it's intended purpose. If I started this in the Pub, there'd be all sorts of problems with people yelling "ZOMG VISTA SUX!" and "STFU N()()|3! VISTA IS TEH ****1!!". All I want is an answer to a simple question:
What do you like/dislike about Vista?

Personally, I'd love to see that new "3D window tabbing" removed. It's just a pretty form of Alt-Tab, and I don't see a point. One of my biggest complaints about OSX is the "Hey, you move the mouse here, and all your windows scrunch up and hide until you click one of them." You don't even have to click for it to happen.

I'd like to see it replaced by something like Linux's Multi-desktop feature. Got a media player running in the background, cluttering up your task bar/Alt-Tab menu? Throw it onto desktop 3 and have it out of your way. Running the FreeSpace Open Installer, and waiting for it to download all that is FreeSpace? Put it on desktop 4, let it do it's thing, and continue surfing the web on desktop 1. I personally feel it successfully does what the 3D select claims to be able to do: Reduce the time spent trying to navigate between windows. By allowing you to move windows you don't need to look at often onto other desktops, it allows you to concentrate on the important windows, without having to Alt-Tab past your media player, bit torrent client, download manager,  etc. Best of all, it's unobtrusive. Down in it's little corner, it takes up about as much space as one desktop icon.

[Aardwolf]

I don't have Vista, but I've got a question about it. If I were to get a new computer with Vista (I am quite certain it is not worth putting it on my current one, if that is even possible), when I play a game, will annoying little messages and things from stuff like McAfee virus protection and whatnot still be able to get through?

I suppose some programs might have to get through, like ZoneAlarm (firewall program).

So, how does Vista deal with this sort of stuff?

[Bob-san]

For now, we have the broken Windows Defender coupled with the vast differences between Vista and XP. We are currently hoping no virus-writer decides to start writing against Vista; most major antivirus and firewall applications are not out yet. If you ever watched that piece-of-**** Best Buy commercial "...Must be virus free..." and the salesperson brings them the a Gateway with WinVista, you know what I mean... rarity is a good antivirus, though that seeming-immunity is actually just dodging the bullet for the time being. Vista will have more viruses than XP; once market share grows for Vista, it'll start coming in mass.

Its not worth getting Vista unless you have a computer a year old or so with good hardware. Get it with your next computer or your next major rebuild or upgrade.

ZoneAlarm didn't work last I heard. It's being fixed, by the time the virus-writers start writing for Vista it'll probably be out.

Vista "features" (I would call it an annoyance or something) Windows Defender; a horribly flawed anti-virus/firewall/anti-spyware program that is a part of the actual OS. If XP's SP2 security updates are anything similar to what Vista is, it'll be pure annoyance. If I remember correctly, a magazine tested Windows Defender against other major antivirus programs (AVG, Norton, McAfee, ComputerAssociates, etc). The major programs found and blocked about 80%~90% of viruses, while Windows Defender struggled to do half of that (40% or so). It's a piece of crap that Windows threw in to say this is a secure OS.

I would rather run a nice Linux installation; so many different distros added to a near-nil household usage. It's more secure then any Windows with all the antivirus, firewall, and antispyware programs. Period.

[Tyrian]

I'll be getting a laptop when I leave for college later this year.  Unfortunately, they all come with Vista pre-installed.  Is it possible to set it up to dual boot with Vista and one of the many Linux distros?  (I've heard some people say this can't be done, because of some software code in Vista.)

[Bob-san]

It should work, though it may be cranky.

[Tyrian]

Cranky as in a little slow?  Or cranky as in end-of-the-world, BSOD, Vista upchucks on your shoes?

[Bob-san]

Cranky as I heard that Vista hates non-Micros**t boot managers. If you have a processor with Intel VT, you can run MS Virtual PC 2007 (free, or so I hear) and dual-boot.

[Ghostavo]

The problem I have with Vista is basically I'm afraid of the possible compatibility problems that it might have with other programs. Especially when XP already has those problems which fortunatly some have a fix.

Anyone tried to play System Shock 2 (for example) on Vista?

[jr2]

Virtual PC 2007 is free, and lives happily in my computer.  For dual-boot, though, hmm...If you didn't like Vista, you could I imagine format your drive and install XP.  How good of a boot loader does Vista have?  Because I know that with some tinkering, you can get XP's bootloader to boot Linux, or so I've heard.

[Turey]

Because I know that with some tinkering, you can get XP's bootloader to boot Linux, or so I've heard.

Not that I know of. I've had to use GRUB for dual-booting.

[jr2]

IIRC, you have to make a boot image for Linux and have XP boot that... I'll look it up later and get back to you.

[Tyrian]

Hmm, looks like tinkering is involved...This is gonna be fun.

@Bob-san:  How do I ensure that my processor has Intel VT?

@Turey:  Is GRUB free?  I don't have a lot of money to kick around after I buy this thing.  I'm planning on getting a customized Alienware machine.  I'll probably post the specs here, once they are finalized.

@jr2:  I'm planning on dual booting with Linux and Vista, not XP.  Unless the boot image will work with Vista too...?

[jr2]

1. Try CPU-Z, see if that tells you.

2. Yes.

3. That's what I was hoping, unless Microsoft kindly removed that feature for your protection from the evils of Open Source Software.

[Bob-san]

Hmm, looks like tinkering is involved...This is gonna be fun.

@Bob-san:  How do I ensure that my processor has Intel VT?
You look at the processor model... some of them have VT and some of them don't. What is your processor?
@Turey:  Is GRUB free?  I don't have a lot of money to kick around after I buy this thing.  I'm planning on getting a customized Alienware machine.  I'll probably post the specs here, once they are finalized.
GRUB is free, usually with most Linux distros. I would recommend AGAINST Alienware; price-gouging is apparent and everything overpriced. If you want something to play games, build it yourself. If you can't, find someone who can. Generally specialty stores will order and build your computer for you, as well as service it. Check into some stores and find out; it can never hurt. They will often get competitive; simply charge you for a menial labour fee, parts, and individual parts shipping (~$30-$50 for shipping). Plus, you have 100% control over the computer you want, though that's a different post (from me, probably).
@jr2:  I'm planning on dual booting with Linux and Vista, not XP.  Unless the boot image will work with Vista too...?
I heard some pretty bad things pre-release; dual-booting would be disabled from the pre-loading level. We already know that WinXP and Vista will dual-boot with each other, I haven't heard anything about Vista and Linux, though we all know WinXP and Linux works well with GRUB (v0.95+)

I hope that helps.

[achtung]

I tried Vista, and I don't find it worth the half hour or so it took to upgrade.

[Tyrian]

1.)  My processor is an Intel P4 HT, Northwood core.

2.)  I can build a desktop, no problem.  But building my own laptop isn't something that I have time to learn, nor do I know where to get parts, like the case, screen, etc.  I've got a couple of specialty shops near me, one I've done business with before.  (I won't repeat that experience, they lied to me about the features of some of my peripherals, when I was younger and less knowledgeable.)  The other store seems good, but I haven't dealt with them before.  The problem with going to either of these places is that my college where I am going is far away from them.  If I run into a problem I can't fix myself, I don't want to drive 2 hours there to drop it off, them 2 hours back once it's done.  What would you recommend doing?

3.)  Great, any laptop I get is gonna have Vista.  Vista hates Linux...  So to run Linux, I have to shell out for XP (if I can find it anymore.)

I tried Vista, and I don't find it worth the half hour or so it took to upgrade.

I've poked around it in the stores where it's on demo.  I just don't like the feel of it.  There's too much wasted space on the desktop with those Gadgets, I didn't like the Start Menu, etc.  (Not counting the unholy compatibility issues...What if FSO didn't work on Vista? )  I know that those things can be changed back to the Classic View, but it's irritating to have to do it.  With XP, everything is pre-set the way I like it, the only thing I have to do is reinsert my Registry hacks, which is the work of 5 minutes. 

[jr2]

Hmm, if you own a legal copy of Vista, and don't use it, can MS complain about you using an "illegal" Corporate copy of XP Pro?  I have a legal copy of XP Pro, but I don't install it, I use corp copy, because I like to at Mickeysoft.  It's funny seeing the Windows update report: "Thank you for using genuine Microsoft software."  Makes me feel like ROFLing.

[Bob-san]

1) You don't have Intel VT on that processor.

2) You could just buy the cheapest setup laptop that you like... you can buy a number of parts for laptops (generally your own processor, RAM, hard drive, limited but still it saves money) and then sell the parts you received. Check the prices on newegg (http://www.newegg.com/).

3) I guess... here's something helpful: How to dual-boot Vista with Linux (Vista installed first)

[Tyrian]

1.)  Yeah, I guessed.  The chip is 3 years old.

2.)  Hmm...I didn't think about that...That's an interesting idea.  How would I make sure that the screen and mobo are of good quality though?

3.)  I'll have to read that through once I get my laptop.

[jr2]

Look up the specs for the model you are considering online.