Author Topic: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)  (Read 2550 times)

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Offline Nuclear1

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Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6484279.stm

Quote
Fifteen British navy personnel have been captured at gunpoint by Iranian forces, the Ministry of Defence says.

The men were seized at 1030 local time when they boarded a boat in the Gulf, off the coast of Iraq, which they suspected was smuggling cars.

The Royal Navy said the group was on a routine patrol in Iraqi waters and were understood to be unharmed.

But Iranian state television quoted the Iran foreign ministry as saying they had illegally entered Iranian waters.
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Offline Flipside

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
As a UK member, I want them home safe and sound. However, were they spying?

I wouldn't be surprised to be honest. It's kind of hard to say because we seized some Iranians in Iraq the other day, which kind of added weight to the whole 'Iran supporting the Insurgence' thing, so they might be levering for a bargaining chip by claiming they caught British spies.

I wish I could put more faith in my government, but recent behaviour makes me sceptical of everything these days.

 

Offline Janos

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
Allright!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6485529.stm
Oil prices jump "because of the incident", oh oil market how silly you are

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070323/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_nuclear
Ahmadinejad cancels his UN trip, and who know why because he's Ahmadinejad.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6489493.stm
Seized soldiers "taken to Teheran"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1563877.ece
Iran decides to play tough - try the soldiers for espionage!

Just what is happening? No one really knows so far. Current Internet hypothesises are divided: either UK troops were on a covert operation on Iranian waters or Iran is now harassing Coalition because they are relatively safe.
lol wtf

 

Offline vyper

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
I really don't care whether they crossed the border or not. At the end of the day they're being held by a hostile nation, and if we do in-fact know where they are - we should consider rescuing them.
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Offline Janos

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
I really don't care whether they crossed the border or not. At the end of the day they're being held by a hostile nation, and if we do in-fact know where they are - we should consider rescuing them.
You do realize that if the Brits actually were on an illegitimate mission and then proceeded with another illegitimate mission to rescue their troops it would be a horrible diplomatic crisis? Of course Britain COULD do it, but it propably wouldn't be very wise.
lol wtf

 

Offline vyper

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
Why? We're talking about a nation with very little international credibility, and even less friends.
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Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
I really don't care whether they crossed the border or not. At the end of the day they're being held by a hostile nation, and if we do in-fact know where they are - we should consider rescuing them.
Add to that a foreign nation is threatening British citizens with capital punishment.

Regardless of whether the UK is spying on Iran or not, it's not Iran's place to settle the matter all on its own.  If the British were spying, then there should be some outcry against the UK; if Iran is just trying to flex its muscles and Ahmadinejad is just being a prick, then a certain Iranian President needs to go.  He's not doing Iran any good by attempting to piss off both the US and the UK in rapid succession.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline Janos

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
Why? We're talking about a nation with very little international credibility, and even less friends.

Because if Britons were on Iranian waters Iran is technically right and clear in arresting them?



lol wtf

 

Offline Janos

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
I really don't care whether they crossed the border or not. At the end of the day they're being held by a hostile nation, and if we do in-fact know where they are - we should consider rescuing them.
Add to that a foreign nation is threatening British citizens with capital punishment.
That doesn't matter at all, especially IF A) they were on Iranian waters (give unto Caesar's what is Caesar's and so on) and B) the arrested brits were soldiers. If Iran has highjacked them from international waters or if they are civilians the issue is completely different.

Quote
Regardless of whether the UK is spying on Iran or not, it's not Iran's place to settle the matter all on its own.  If the British were spying, then there should be some outcry against the UK; if Iran is just trying to flex its muscles and Ahmadinejad is just being a prick, then a certain Iranian President needs to go.  He's not doing Iran any good by attempting to piss off both the US and the UK in rapid succession.
Why not?

edit: Forgot to add one thing which might be quite important. Ahmadinejad's positions is not very good right now. He is at odds with cleric council. However he is relatively popular amongst the voters. Add external threats to the mix and you have a recipe for happy parties or something.
lol wtf

 

Offline achtung

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
Iran wants to form a new Persian Empire.  The countries around them don't like that idea, especially the Saudis.  So no, they aren't making many friends.
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Offline vyper

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
Why? We're talking about a nation with very little international credibility, and even less friends.

Because if Britons were on Iranian waters Iran is technically right and clear in arresting them?

There's "technically right" and "technically right and able to back it up". I don't think it's a good idea to start recognising fundamentalist religious regimes as equals on the international law stage.
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Offline jr2

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/c2fac05c-dac2-11db-ba4d-000b5df10621.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6493391.stm

Apparently, Blair says they were taken from Iraqi waters, I've heard the area they were taken from is of disputed ownership.

And, it looks like this is not the first time...
Quote from: BBC
21 June 2004: Iran seizes UK vessels and crew
23 June 2004: UK sailors 'admit Iran incursion'
24 June 2004: Iran releases British servicemen

 

Offline vyper

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  • The Sexy Scotsman
Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
Yeah. It's opportunism on the part of the Iranian President. I doubt anyone set out to capture British sailors, but they were close enough to, or maybe even in, Iranian waters and someone got over-eager to defend their borders. The problem is that if they try to use these guys (and girl) as a bartering chip, we set a precedent whereby our soldiers are no longer just in fear of being blown up by roadside bombs, they have to fear (more than before) being kidnapped too.

I can see why people believe diplomacy should be used here - but the longer we wait for the return of the prisoners, the higher the chance they are mistreated (and I don't need to point out that Iran has a poor record on human rights, especially towards women). It's dangerous enough to invoke military action (post-rescue things could be talked down) - but if our people are harmed it takes this to a whole new level. A level we aren't ready for yet.
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Offline jr2

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
Sure we're ready... we just aren't willing, and rightly so.  :drevil: If we were like the people we were fighting, we could launch a couple of MIRVS, and never have to worry about our enemies again.  We just care about human life, that's all.

 

Offline Janos

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
Whoops

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6501555.stm
- UK government says merchant vessel boarded by crew from HMS Cornwall was 1.7 nautical miles inside Iraqi territorial waters
- HMS Cornwall was south-east of merchant ship, inside Iraqi waters
- Iranian government initially told UK that merchant vessel was at a point still within Iraqi waters
- After UK pointed this out, Iran provided alternative position, within Iranian waters


lol wtf

 

Offline achtung

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
So they tricked them into Iranian waters, and ambushed them.

Nice.
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Offline jr2

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
Aw... Iran would never do something like that, they're nice folks...

Quote from: Iranian terrorist
Nonsense!  We would never do that, we are nice people, not like your DEVI-  um, President.

By the way, I have a bridge to sell you...

The Holocaust didn't really happen...

Lastly, have you tried my excellent fireworks?  Perfect for celebrating SATA- err, American Independence Day.  You must try, they are half off for only two more days!!

:lol:

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
So they tricked them into Iranian waters, and ambushed them.

Nice.
Wow.

Is Iran trying to start an international incident?
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
Let me rephrase that.

Is Iran (seriously) trying to start an international incident?

Do they have THE BOMB yet?

Your answer for both questions will prolly be the same, yes or no.  :shaking:

 

Offline Janos

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Re: Let's make a debate out of this... (Iran-UK incident)
So they tricked them into Iranian waters, and ambushed them.

Nice.

No, because the merchant vessel was still anchored on Iraqi waters this morning, so someone is lying bigtime, and it propably is Iranians, and I have no idea why they are doing it
lol wtf