[chief1983]

Ok, just to clarify so there's no confusion as to what path we're going to follow, and why, here's a semi-short explanation.

First, what do our eyes tell us:

In RotJ, the most canon source of all involving them, a scene reporting the Executor's shields is down shortly after an A-Wing destroys a dome with a missile/torpedo.

What else do we know from other sources:

According to the SWTC, which was quoting a CINEFEX journal, Richard Edlund, from Lucasart's effects team, referred to the domes as "radar domes".
Starting with the game X-Wing in 1993, the domes are shield generators destroyable by the player to take down the Star Destroyer's shields.
After that point, many reference books were printed referring to the domes as shield generators, and the array between them as sensors (or, in some instances, communications).  I don't know of any printed reference material before that point that says anything about them.  It's possible the games had a significant influence on the data in the published references.

What does common sense tell us:

Who would put shields in such a vulnerable spot?  All other ships in the SW universe have more protected shields than that.  (Common sense carries the least weight here, after all, it is fiction, but it's still worth noting.)

Now, the games are not very canon, and are not a very good source of what should actually be what.  However, they seem to have had a significant influence on the third-party reference material, none of which is strictly canon, except where Lucas says it is.  (Personally I think anything Lucas said after 1990 should be disregarded, because he clearly went bat-**** loco frakking crazy with the new trilogy and original remakes.)  So, how can we satisfy the most sources in the most flexible way possible?  I propose the following.

The domes _are_ sensor/radar domes.  However, due to a flaw in engineering, their violent destruction causes a surge, or failure, or short, or whatever, in the shield system, that leads to the shields going down, either permanently, or temporarily.  This does rely heavily on Richard Edlund's quote being accurate, in that he properly used the term 'radar domes', but I'm confident that either way, this solution should step on the fewest toes, and still allow us to work in the most versatility into the mission design.

Post replies if you need to, but please mind your manners and exercise some tact in your responses, and do not turn this thread into a flame war.  Go to the Padded Cell and bother Cobra if you need to do that.

[Flipside]

Well, to me at least, the comment of 'Sir, we've lost the bridge deflector shield' suggests that, like fighters, shields are made up of defensive 'areas', which can have power transferred to them when under attack, so a Star Destroyer on an offensive charge would have all power to forward facing shields.

Maybe the loss of the Radar doesn't so much disable the shields, but without the ability to track incomibg enemy properly and perform a decent threat assessment on them, maybe it means that they have to rely on manually diverting energy between shields, which is going to lower the response time and make the ship more vulnerable to weapons fire? So it doesn't actually destroy the shields, but just makes it a lot lot harder for them to respond to multiple attacks quickly enough?

[Flaser]

Another thing about shields that was in the EU books (the good ones by Timothy Zahn and Michael Stackpole) was that X-Wings could momentarily overpower an ISD's shields by massed torpedo fire.

The reason why we're lucky in this department is that the FS engine supports quadrants in shield hit detection - I have a vague hope that segment hit detection could also be implement. That would allow the "classic" SW tactic to be used.

(In the books another tactic is for fighters to fly in tight formation and create an overlapping shield of greater strengh than the member's own. This is used by both Imp and Reb fightercraft - and was invented by Zahn -, and the A-Wings have a tactic where they "provide cover" for a bunch of ship launched missiles/torepedoes (rarely used as munitions CAN be shot down, and unlike a fighter, a warship can't set up proper firing solution that would ensure the hit and deny interception) in essence and artilerry barage on steroids hid behind a living shield.)

[JGZinv]

I'll link the SWTC article for other's use....

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/towers.html

Note that a number of the novels were made after it was put together, as were the comics and recent games.

Eh... The sensor/shield mix I don't think I have a problem with really.
Some things I would have to think about or come to mind are...

1. Typically the placement suggests that they would be sensors, because they have to "see"
over the length of the hull... but the shields do as well. If you go through the Executor's section
on SWTC... it shows how the shields react in two instances when hit by massive objects, etc.
Sort of a rolling wave... not a "splatter" or ping on a shield bubble.
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/ssd.html#shields

Unless you consider that the shield (domes) would create a bubble around the ship (as seen
in the comic example there, but not in the movies at all) then the domes can't be responsible
for all of the shields simply because they cannot "see" the bottom of the ship. Thus unless another
generator is hiding down there - that section should be unprotected. This goes for the sensors too...
You'd have to have multiple systems in either case if they work off the line of sight principal.

2. If you did separate them, then it would almost have to be the globes to be shields
and the central tower for sensors... because having the shields in that one spot on the tower
doesn't make as much sense visually... unless you were going for the most coverage right over
the primary bridge pit. Which I'm fairly sure I remember secondary command centers on ISDs and SSDs.

Really, if they were to be split up, it makes more technical sense for the shield generators
to be placed around the hull in various locations. Like per say when the ion cannon on Hoth
hit that one Star Destroyer... you might say that one or two of the forward deflectors had been taken out
at the same time.... thus the front shields would go down in gameplay. Also having them spread around
makes it so you have more trouble trying to take each ship out... thus longer gameplay.

One of the things I always did, was go after the domes. Knock out the shields in the games.
Then it's pretty easy to kill an SSD or whichever with a single A wing...

But the idea of the Bacta War X-wing books, where they loaded up the freighters with heavy rockets
and slaved the targeting computers to the X-wings was a good one.

Another nice sequence was when Wraith Squadron used the Corvette to latch on to the
dustball of a "moon," and slide back and forth taking shots at an ISD II (using the tractor beam)
while the Tie's and X-wings were able to penetrate into the ISD's core generator on the bottom.

But eh, I'm not arguing the use of putting them together. Just pointing out some visual/mechanical
issues with Imp cap ships in general. Thinking out loud. ^_^

Edit - Oh now I remember my other point... besides the deflector type shields, there were supposed
to be other kinds that protected from other objects during travel or energy on a ship. I can't confirm this, it just
seems to be a nagging memory from one of the books. I think it had to do with the Falcon in one novel, and
it was mentioned in another when something exploded in front of a command bridge. Sorry I can't narrow it down better.

[jr2]

Ray shields... used in the DS1 exhaust vent..

[chief1983]

Yes, ray, and I believe the other type are called particle shields, since they stop particulate matter (ie not photonic like lasers, etc), but I'm not certain on this.

[JGZinv]

Particle rings a bell, the ray too now that you brought up Rebel Alliance.

So maybe that's another option... just explain it away by saying the failure
of the domes causes a drop in one of those "other" shield types.
Then again, the bride officer did say it was the "deflectors..." specifically.

Ah and there should be atmospheric type shielding (personal), planetary (Bothan planet),
and there was a particular name for the type used on the hanger bays. I want to say... (looking around, one source says ray, another electromagnetic, Deathstar was magnetic, another simply atmosphere containment) but I'm drawing a blank again. But the point I guess, is that there's more than two shield generators, although they may be for other purposes.

[G0atmaster]

I agree with Flaser.  I distinctly remember a member of Rogue Squadron flying up close to an ISD, linking his targeting computer with about a dozen Y-wings, who used his targeting info to mass attack the ISD with torpedoes, since their computers' range was shorter than their torpedoes, and Y-wings are too slow to dodge ISD weapons well enough to survive.

[Turambar]

I agree with Flaser.  I distinctly remember a member of Rogue Squadron flying up close to an ISD, linking his targeting computer with about a dozen Y-wings, who used his targeting info to mass attack the ISD with torpedoes, since their computers' range was shorter than their torpedoes, and Y-wings are too slow to dodge ISD weapons well enough to survive.

that was a lancer frigate

[G0atmaster]

DOH.  Good point.  My bad.

Anyway, you get the idea.  If memory serves, they'd taken out an ISD at some point with torps in that series.

[Turambar]

yup.  concentrated torp salvos to bring shields down, and some more to destroy the ship

[aipz]

I would also agree that these domes are more likely sensors etc.
And ISD's shields could be overpowered under certain conditions such as a massive ordnance barrage
You definetly have right here

[Tyrian]

Minor necrothreading...

[SW Nerd]

According to the SWTC, which was quoting a CINEFEX journal, Richard Edlund, from Lucasart's effects team, referred to the domes as "radar domes".
Starting with the game X-Wing in 1993, the domes are shield generators destroyable by the player to take down the Star Destroyer's shields.
After that point, many reference books were printed referring to the domes as shield generators, and the array between them as sensors (or, in some instances, communications).  I don't know of any printed reference material before that point that says anything about them.  It's possible the games had a significant influence on the data in the published references.

First, when Lucas designed most of the items to appear in the movies, he pulled almost everything in the movies from real life.  When his teams built many of the Imperial ships, they cannibalized hundreds of battleship kits.  This is how they built the Death Star's surface.  The whole area is the size of two ping pong ball tables with battleship parts glued on. 

Military radomes are typically ground based, Aircraft mounted, Ship mounted or Submarine mounted.

radomes have been available since the early 1930’s

Source:  http://www.tods.co.uk/radomes/mil_radomes.html

According to this, radomes (which are what the balls on the ISD are) were mounted on ships.  So, it's feasible that Richard Edlund (a VFX tech, probably a modelmaker) was talking about what he made the actual prop out of, not it's in-movie purpose. 

Next:

Who would put shields in such a vulnerable spot?  All other ships in the SW universe have more protected shields than that.

I agree.  It is a bad idea to put a system in an exposed location like that, unless they had a really good reason.  I personally don't think that the domes are shield generators.  I think that the Imperials would be smart enough to bury the generator near the center of the ship, in the most protected spot possible.  However, I do believe that the domes are shield projectors.  In this capacity, they would still be a critical component of the shield system, but would have a good reason for being in an exposed location.  It would also explain why, when one of them was destroyed by an A-Wing, the Captain stated that they had lost the forward deflector.  It's possible that one dome shields the forward area of the ship, while the other shields the rear.  It could also permit shields to be switched between an even coverage, double front, and double rear mode.  The X-Wings in Episode IV can do this, so it might be possible for an ISD to do it.  It might just take longer due to the size/power of the shield.  It could explain why the Captain of the ISD wanted more forward firepower, while his bridge crew changed over the shields.

Now, as to the bottom of the ship.  On the bottom of an ISD, there is a very large blister just aft of the docking bay.  This could be another shield projector tasked to cover the bottom of the ship.  In the most recent Rogue Squadron game, there is a mission where you must prevent the capture of a Corellian Corvette.  One of your objectives is to destroy the ISD's three shield projectors.  However, I realize that games are not the best source of evidence. 

Lastly, it just doesn't seem plausible to me that a failure in the sensor/comm system could cause a failure in the shields.  They are completely independent systems, and I seriously doubt that the Empire can make that big of a mistake.

As a result, I believe that the domes are shield projector, not a type of comm/sensor system.

Also, I realize that the shield system debate was sparked by an SSD, not an ISD.  I just used the term ISD for the sake of continuity and simplicity.

[/SW Nerd]

I just wanted to present my views.  Thanks for reading!

[jr2]

That actually makes sense... might not be accurate, but it certainly sounds accurate.

[Agent_Koopa]

If you read the section on ISD globes, it suggests that the A-wing destroying the globe may have been because the bridge shields had failed, not the other way around. The captain ordered more forward firepower because he either foresaw what was about to happen or to try to destroy the Mon Calamari ships before their shield failed entirely. But seriously, a shield generator and a shield projector are the exact same thing. Destroying either takes out the whole system. It's always been my understanding that the shields are projected in a bubble around the generator, and can be fine-tuned to adjust the size and positioning, as well as to create a shield around the entire ship. Interestingly, FreeSpace ships don't have shield generator subsystems...

[chief1983]

Freespace ships don't have shield generator subsystems because capships don't have shields, and subsystems rarely play a part on fighters, except for the engines.

[Flaser]

...which in turn DO have shield generator subsystems.

[Tyrian]

That actually makes sense... might not be accurate, but it certainly sounds accurate.

It's just my personal theory on the ISD structure.  I just wanted to throw out my 0.02 Imperial credits.

But seriously, a shield generator and a shield projector are the exact same thing. Destroying either takes out the whole system. It's always been my understanding that the shields are projected in a bubble around the generator, and can be fine-tuned to adjust the size and positioning, as well as to create a shield around the entire ship.

They're not exactly the same thing.  The generator creates the energy needed for the shield, while the projector actually emits the energy around the ship.  The generator can be buried deep in the ship, because you can use a power conduit to bring the energy to the projector.  But the projector would need to be placed in an external location on the ship to ensure maximum coverage for the shield.  By putting the projectors on top of the bridge, you can get the most coverage, at the expense of protection.  But you're right in that if you blow up either, the whole system goes down.

[Scourge of Ages]

Wait a second. If shields protect a ship, and the shield generators are part of the ship, logically the shields protect the shield generators. No matter how much firepower you unloaded on a "shield generator/projector", you couldn't damage it until the shields went down. Unless the point is to keep the shields down after you get through initially, or to sneak a fighter underneath the shield bubble, worrying about this subsystem is nearly pointless. Interesting, but not all that useful.

P.S. In the original X-Wing game, on easy mode destroying one tower would take an ISD to 50% shields, on hard however, you couldn't touch them until the shields were down anyways.

[jr2]

Proton torps (if my friend was correct) are specifically designed to punch through shields.  And, IIRC, the X-Wing strafing run was something to be feared.