[Mustang19]

Yes, the Aeolus is the one decent anti-fighter ship of the game. But apparently the GTVA's shipbuilders could only do this by specializing it as a air-defense ship. And even then, 4 Artemis could probably kill if you aren't smart enough to just stand off and use Rockeyes or Treb. Or Tornadoes, etc., if you're quick in and out.

Strange, Snail. The beams can indeed be deadly. But flak only kills me if I get too close, most of the time. Basically, what flak teaches me is to not hang around in a capship's deadly zone for too long, but quick runs are perfectly safe. You've played Slaying Ravana, right? How hard was it for you?

[Mobius]

He might be playing at Easy, since the damage AAA beams inflict is contained and flak are almost good for nothing.

Also, depends on the type of flak gun, we know that there are many types of flaks and we also know that some ships(Hecate)have flak turrets that fire two shots per time. There are Standar Flak guns, Heavy Flak ones and Long Range.


Also, only the tech description of the Aeolus refers to it as a poor Anti-warship platform. It has twice the firepower of the Leviathan, and it can hit targets at about 160°, unlike the Leviathan.

[Snail]

Yes, the Aeolus is the one decent anti-fighter ship of the game. But apparently the GTVA's shipbuilders could only do this by specializing it as a air-defense ship. And even then, 4 Artemis could probably kill if you aren't smart enough to just stand off and use Rockeyes or Treb. Or Tornadoes, etc., if you're quick in and out.

Strange, Snail. The beams can indeed be deadly. But flak only kills me if I get too close, most of the time. Basically, what flak teaches me is to not hang around in a capship's deadly zone for too long, but quick runs are perfectly safe. You've played Slaying Ravana, right? How hard was it for you?

BTW, Flak does nothing against bombs.

[Zantor]

FS2 for me...capital ships actually have a purpose greater than just being carriers.  Shields really buggered them in terms of being a threat.  Storyline was deeper and more interesting as well, just felt more epic.

I can agree with it being more epic. FS2 is more gripping, but the story is a little rushed.

*Ha hem* Aeolus *Ha hem*

Another thing in favor of FS2 is the end of the NTF rebellion. Cool part(it's a human faction, not Vasudan or Shivan, so the feelings of the player usually are different).

During the blockade and the following attacks on rebel rallying points, you watched thousands of people die, and no one gave them the possibility to surrender. That part invited me to reflect

The end of FS1 and the words in the final cinematic really had me sit, reflect, and think.

BTW, Flak does nothing against bombs.

I've seen flak knock bombs clear out of flight without me firing at it. If that's not the case, then something else--a wingman or stray fire--knocked it out.

[Snail]

They may hit a few times, but according to the all-knowing Mars, they don't.

[Mobius]

Flak are good against bombs but I guess that they need time to destroy a bomb because the programmers wanted some eyecandy(flak explosion all around the bomb, then it explodes after a few seconds).

[Mustang19]

I've probably played Bearbaiting too many times. Those forward flak guns on the Sath are worthless. But really, I don't usually get killed by AAA unless I stay on one place for too long. I can usually survive 3-4 bombing runs on a large ship, which is usually enough to kill it, even when taking damage from flak. So what if your hull is at 5% afterwards? It only takes a few bombs.

[FlyingBadger]

You're basically saying that the anti capital ship platforms (i.e. bombers) are.....good at taking out capital ships.  Well, duh, of course they are.  Flak is defintely more effective against fighters, which is why trying to dogfight near enemy capital ships involves a pretty severe pucker factor.  The biggest thing that always gets me about AAA, especially when flying right at the capship in a bomber, is it nails your subsystems.  More than a few times has it blasted my weapons or sensors system as I come in for a bombing pass.

[jr2]

He said it's Insane... but I'm with you... flak is a major PIA, and sometimes deadly, specially if you don't have too much manuverability.  Although, sometimes it doesn't seem to work right... I guess it just depends on how many targets the cannons have to shoot at.  If you're ahead of your wing, bad... if you are the only survivor... bad.

[Teta]

I rekon freespace 1 was far better when it comes to atmosphere and storyline, it was the first computer game our family ever bought, back in 98/99, i cant rememebr exactly, and me and dad usted to sit around the PC playing it, i was only a wee lad back then, and the opening video just terrified me throughout my life of playing it.

When freespace 2 came around, i was older, and the intro video was more poignant than scary, so the atmosphere would never again really scare me.



About flak, i've never really considered it a terrible threat, once you have taken out the AAA beams, then it becomes your next biggest problem, but compared against the AAA beams, it isnt even worth worring aqbout

[Mustang19]

AIEEEE THREAD HIJACK!

Just to get us more off-topic, here are two missions I made in FRED. The first shows an attack of four Artemis on an Aeolus. The Artemis have nothing more than one bank of Cyclops (4 bombs) and a Subach. The bombers will kill the Aeolus in a matter of seconds once they get within range  adn take only light damage. I found that the first salvo is very important. If you give the bombers less Cyclops or remove just one bomber, the attack will not succeed. But I think that four Artemis is a good trade for one Aeolus. The strongest flak ship on FS, taken down by 4 bombers.

The second mission has fighter escort involved. Three Myrs escort the four Artemis. Four Perseus escort the Aeolus. The bombers will fail, but inflict heavy damage. As you can see, flak and beams are little more than distraction against a serious assault. Fighters are the main defenses of capships.

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[Snail]

The main thing I see here is the fact that the Aeolus has not enough blob turrets. Believe it or not, blobs are the main defense against bombs, not flak. All the times I played those missions, none of the bombs were destroyed. Why? Flak sucks .

Now, play the first mission again, but replace the Aeolus with Leviathan (and change its name just for good measure ). The Leviathan has four Anti-Fighter beams, whereas the Aeolus has only two. 3/3 times the Leviathan dies, but, usually 2/4 of 'Attack' wing is destroyed. Anti-Fighter beams are much more dangerous than Flak, and take down more bombs. So the Aeolus may seem more fearsome because your screen is always pulsing red, but the Leviathan is more dangerous.

Next, change it to Lilith. I see, 3/3 times the Lilith is destroyed, and the damage to 'Attack' wing is very light (most damage is done by the single SAAA gun anyway). However, it takes down quite a few bombs, but not as many as the Leviathan. This is proof that Flak guns hit bombs 1/10 times, but blob turrets are far more accurate and usually hit bombs. However, blob turrets do next to no damage to bombers or fighters.


Conclusion:

Flak Guns - Flak guns are okay against fighters/bombers but can't hit bombs.
Blob Turrets - USELESS against fighters but good against bombs.
Anti-Fighter Beams - Good against both fighters and bombs.





Wait a sec, how'd this get so off topic?

[S-99]

idk about you guys. But flak always kills me when i least expect it to.

[Snail]

BTW, change the bombers to Ursas, you can see the Flak guns are far more effective against slow targets.

[Mongoose]

idk about you guys. But flak always kills me when i least expect it to.

I agree.  While AAA beams are always a potent threat, if your shields are hurting, heavy flak fire can do a world of hurt to you before you've even realized it.  There have been numerous occasions when I've been so preoccupied at trying to take out beam weapons on a cruiser or corvette that I've failed to notice that flak was swiftly chewing its way through my hull.

[jr2]

Yeah, now I seem to remember that flak turrets don't bother you when you're in a fast / manueverable craft, but if you're using said craft to attack the cap ship, it won't bode too well unless you strafe across it, not head on.  (like in SW with the X-Wing strafing runs)  That makes sense now... in WWII, you don't ever hear too much about fighters having problems with flak.

[Mustang19]

In RL, flak (or any type of air defense) is meant to complicate a bomber's task, not so much to destroy it outright. I read that during the US bombing campaign in WW2 it was found that heavy flak fire could reduce accuracy by as much as 80%. The evasive manuevers, higher altitude, and other steps that the bombers had to take makes their job a lot harder. In Vietnam, the South Vietnamese air force was trained for "low and slow" bombing runs by their US advisers, and they got torn up by North Vietnamese antiaircraft. They flew higher and faster during their runs afterwards, and although their losses were light the quality of their accuracy was degraded. Same in 1973 when the Arab SAM umbrella forced the Israelis to fly low, which is less fuel-efficient and forced them to dodge all kinds of gun fire from the ground.

This is basically the effect that flak has on me. Beams will kill you out of nowhere, but flak can be avoided. It shakes you up so you can't aquire bomb lock and forces you to fly evasively (e.g. not just sit in one place and hold down the primary fire button like you could in FS1). But it's been a while since flak has actually killed me.

Personally, I think that capships should scrap their flak turrets and replace them with 6-barrel Kaysers. Or better yet, Morning Stars.  8)

[Snail]

****, Aeolus Morning Stars!

[jr2]

Owwee

[Mobius]

Well, Mustang19, you're damn right. I totally agree with your description of flak guns.