Author Topic: Subspace drive recharge time  (Read 8935 times)

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Offline Polpolion

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Subspace drive recharge time
Couldn't the situation of jumping into an area and being ambushed while the drive is recharging be averted by having multiple drives?

 

Offline Turey

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Re: Subspace drive recharge time
That'd increase the cost and size of the ship immensely.
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Offline jr2

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Re: Subspace drive recharge time
I imagine you could cut down on recharge time with a better reactor, which, of course, would be more expensive...

 
Re: Subspace drive recharge time
On the other hand, it'd produce a much bigger
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Offline AlphaOne

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Re: Subspace drive recharge time
On the other hand noone knows how big a subspace drive is ! So Untill we have more detailed info on this subject we can only speculate. Also If they are indeed not that big they sure as hell require a sh*t load of power to charge and recharge. So my guess would be to either add some more reactors which would increase the overall cost of the ship but would decrease the overall time of the recharge. Or improve the reactors advance them enough so that they become prehaps smaller and more powerfull thus decreasing the overall recharge time. Or you could advance the jumpdrives and subspace tech in general to alow you to microjump or multiple jumps.

Or all of the above.!
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Re: Subspace drive recharge time
Derelict tried hard to "explain" some of these jump drive oddities. Canonically, though, jump times seem to be rather short. Although in Derelict you'll have to escort transports as they "recharges their jump drives" (read "finishes waypoints"), in the FS1 and 2 campaigns it seems that it only takes 30 seconds or so to jump out. In fact, I've never seen a canon reference to "charging jump drives", although most user-made campaigns take this concept for granted.

I get the impression that the longer it takes to jump out, the more "accurate" your jump will be. Think back to the FS1 mission where you escort the shield prototypes and the Vasudan transport group jumps in 10,000m away. The Vasudans wanted to do a quick "get the hell out of here" jump, but ended up way off the mark, 10,000m from the Arcadia station. Alternatively, they might have just been an HoL decoy.  :nervous:

What bugs me is that capital ships never jump out when badly damaged. You should be required to disable engines before attacking a capital ship. I mean, really, think back to the FS1 mission where you kill the Eva. You kill the weapons subsys and then pound the Eva from 1,000m away for 15 minutes until it blows up, and the Eva just sits there doing nothing. Mission designers really need to take into account the fact that an intelligent ship captain is going to warp out rather than "martyr" himself (think Their Finest Hour) when his hull gets below 10-20%.

 

Offline Prophet

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Re: Subspace drive recharge time
Maybe it's like the B5 jump drive. Takes a lot of energy to charge, but is very fragile and gets damaged easily. So likely, when the ship takes a pounding the subspace drive might get damaged. Something like kinetic energy shakes something loose, or crewmember gets thrown in to the gears when one of those poorly constructed computer consoles explodes from no apparent reason.

Also, it's reasonable to assume ships have large energy reserves (batteries, backups etc). There should be no reason why the drive couldn't be fed energy from the reserves, which shouldn't be very time consuming. But replenishing that energy (recharging reserve batteries) by the reactor probably takes more time than an simple energy transfer, and could leave the ship vulnerable later on.

But considering that FS subspace drives can be fitted on small fighters, I doubt the drive takes too much power for normal jumps. Node travel on the other hand is a different case.
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Offline jr2

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Re: Subspace drive recharge time
IIRC, canonically, jdrives cause the entire ship to match frequency with subspace or something, but I can't remember if this was canon or not.  I'll look it up & post it later.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Subspace drive recharge time
Mustang, the NTF warships in mission "King's Gambit" were the canonical reference to recharging jump drives. (also finishing waypoints. ;))

 
Re: Subspace drive recharge time
Alas, it never says anything about "charging" in the mission... the NTF just wanted to stay around and pick their noses for a few minutes before jumping out.

Now that you bring up A King's Gambit, it's got me thinking. I thought that you had to escort ships to a jump node because there was some kind of subspace "dead ground" around a subspace portal. But with the NTF jumping in and out near the node, it seems that you can go anywhere with subspace. So why can't you warp in your Harbinger crate .0001m from the enemy destroyers and self-destruct it?  :nod:

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Subspace drive recharge time
Gravity affects subspace, I'm assuming that means mass does too, either directly or indirectly.  Jump points are inter-system, whereas you can jump almost anywhere intra-system with just your jump drive.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2007, 01:24:03 am by jr2 »

 

Offline Prophet

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Re: Subspace drive recharge time
So why can't you warp in your Harbinger crate .0001m from the enemy destroyers and self-destruct it?
I don't think anyone says you couldn't. But mass producing harbingers, and a one use delivery system (the crate, including subspace drive) could become expensive. IMO it's smarter, and cheaper, to just mass produce harbingers and use a reuseable delivery system (a fighter craft).

Though we don't know how accurate a subspace jump is. Can you plot a course to a dime, or do you just arrive in a general proximity of the gas giant you targeted...
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Subspace drive recharge time
Batteries. Unless for some obscure and improbable reason energy for a jump cannot be stored.

Accuracy must be reasonably good. The Shivans are the masters of it, of course, but GTVA jumps must be accurate to within a couple of kilometers.
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Re: Subspace drive recharge time
Remember the Psamtik was about 9000m off when it jumped in at the second Knossos. Forget what mission it was, but it was the one where the Psamtik is killed by the Sathanas. So, navigational errors do occur.

 

Offline Dysko

Re: Subspace drive recharge time
But in that mission it is stated that the warp-out error may have been caused by the subspace disturbance generated by the Knossos.
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Re: Subspace drive recharge time
*HUGE noncanon alert*

While I can't speak for the official canon, my own thought was that subspace drives relied on an enormous bank of capacitors.  It makes more sense than batteries, since you're going to need a high volume of energy discharged in a very short period of time, and there's probably some risk of an accidental discharge causing damage to the ship's entire electrical system if some numb-skull CO decides to leave the drives charged at all times.  The jump drive's function is to tear a small tunnel through subspace between two points in normal space.  This is sufficient for most intrasystem jumps (hence, fighters can return to base without being leashed to a jump node), but longer jumps require access to a pre-existing subspace tunnel.

To determine relative energy requirements of a ship's jump, I apply some geometric reasoning....  Consider a standard where the subspace drive onboard any ship must open a jump conduit of some specified length, and this length is equal for all ships.  What you need to concern yourself with now is the radius of the tunnel that the ship needs to create.  That's pretty easy to tell, just looking at the subspace animation for each type of ship.  (You could argue, here, that subspace missions always occur in a tunnel that is really big, relative to the ships inside.  Those also occur in the intersystem subspace conduits, which I'll address below, not the smaller conduits formed directly by a ship's subspace drive, so seeing them with a constant radius of Really Big™ doesn't conflict with the reasoning presented here.)  Now, when you double the radius of a circle, you square the area, therefore, you square the energy requirements.  This is why you have fighters, with small banks of capacitors that charge relatively quickly, that can jump through subspace on just a few seconds notice, while corvettes, destroyers, and other large ships will need several minutes forewarning ahead of a jump.  Normally, this is a non-issue.  When the Aquitaine is approaching a jump node, because they're so frakking slow, they know exactly how long they have before they reach the node and can start charging their jump drives at the optimal moment.  In situations where you're jumping into an area, then immediately trying to jump out (such as "The King's Gambit," mentioned above), or in an ambush, where the vessel's crew didn't know they'd need to jump, recharge times become an issue.

Jump nodes, for all intents and purposes, are the terminal points of a natural, self-sustaining subspace tunnel that can be accessed by a ship's subspace drives.  The node, as rendered on one's HUD, represents a safe radius, where the normal charge on a ship's subspace drive will allow it to produce a subspace tunnel long enough to intersect the pre-existing tunnel between systems.  In situations where caution must be foregone, it is therefore possible to apply extra power to the subspace drives to access a subspace conduit relatively far from the node, such as the end of the third mission in Second Front*, at the expense of doing damage to subsystems across the entire ship.

What I've not addressed at any point are issues of general accuracy of a jump, when exiting subspace and navigational errors.  I figure that by the FS2-era, even GTVA subspace technology has reached a point where they can perform some very Shivan-esque maneuvers, such as jumping in right on top of a hostile convoy, as long as they have intelligence on that convoy's location/route.  (Shivans, on the other hand, likely have some means of sensing ships on the other side of the subspace barrier, so they don't need recon data or prior intelligence about a convoy's route; they can just spontaneously decide to ambush it.)  When you're talking about capital ships as large as the ones in FS2, a few meters up and to the left of where you wanted to arrive doesn't really mean much.  As for major navigational errors, fire the helmsman or repair your nav subsystem before exiting subspace.

Again, none of that is canon, but it is really nifty, and it's the logic I follow whenever I have to babble about subspace in my missions.

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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Subspace drive recharge time
Yes, it does make great sense :D I concur :yes:
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Offline Mobius

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Re: Subspace drive recharge time
But in that mission it is stated that the warp-out error may have been caused by the subspace disturbance generated by the Knossos.

We can give it for sure. Remember that a Sathanas was about to arrive.

Yes, it does make great sense :D I concur :yes:

I needed a few mins to read it and I somewhat agree :)
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Re: Subspace drive recharge time
AHA! Volition didn't want the Psamtik to warp in near the node or there'd be an... interesting collision with the Sathanas.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Subspace drive recharge time
Alas, it never says anything about "charging" in the mission...
The King's Gambit, briefing stage 3:

"The NTF fleet will enter through the Capella jump node. Each warship will then jump to a rallying point within the Gamma Draconis system. In the interval between jumps, they will re-energize their subspace drives. Your role will be to neutralize the warships with your Cyclops torpedoes."


Jump points are intra-system, whereas you can jump almost anywhere inter-system with your jump drive.
I think you switched "intra" and "inter" there.  Think of interstate vs. intrastate highways.