Author Topic: Starcraft 2: It's official.  (Read 36901 times)

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
I think the problem is less that the units don't look realistic and more that the visual style is markedly different from the first game. Starcraft looked quite stark and tended to use a somewhat drab colour palette, which gave it a relatively realistic feel even though the units were technically not realistic at all.

Starcraft 2 on the other hand, with its bright colours and even more misbalanced scale, just looks flat out cartoony.
Yeah, its going to turn into Warcraft 3.

I sure earned it, didn't I?  :P

 

Offline Sarafan

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
I think the problem is less that the units don't look realistic and more that the visual style is markedly different from the first game. Starcraft looked quite stark and tended to use a somewhat drab colour palette, which gave it a relatively realistic feel even though the units were technically not realistic at all.

Starcraft 2 on the other hand, with its bright colours and even more misbalanced scale, just looks flat out cartoony.
Yeah, its going to turn into Warcraft 3.

Far from it, SC2 is turning out to be a lot "darker" than either WC3 or the first SC, the result will be much different.

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
SC used 256 colors (640x480x8) IIRC, which explains the drabness.

 

Offline Hades

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
SC used 256 colors (640x480x8) IIRC, which explains the drabness.

Yes if they had the Gaming tech we have today, it would have been something like SC2. :P
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline IceFire

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
Its the limited color pallet that gave allot of old games a very drab, dark, dreary sort of look to them.  Quake 1 was notorious for having a completely drab appearance...some of that was planned and some of that was because it was easier/looked better to do it with a very limited pallet because the video technology just wasn't there.

Now we can do high dynamic range lighting with a full pallet and stuff that was meant to be colorful can be.  StarCraft always had a cartoony view to it...it was just more subtle because of the colors.  The style itself was still in sort of an overdone version of reality.  SC2 is the same style...its just harder to appreciate it immediately.  But take one look at a Protoss Carrier in SC1 or a Zerg Hydralisk and tell me that the bright yellows and pink/purples (Protoss and Zerg respectively) were meant to look completely realistic.

For a fast moving RTS...you want to be able to see your units and figure out what each unit is just by having a quick look at it.  Obviously some extra colors, a few glowy bits, some blinking lights, or whatever other doodad you can come up with is going to help distinguish which is why most RTS's have units that are exaggerated.
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Offline jr2

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
Heh, might find this interesting:

Quote from: http://www.juvenilecomedy.com/starcraft_wishlist.htm

Dear Blizzard,

I am a gamer. Contrary to the current stereotype, I am not fat. Nor do I live in a basement, nor with my parents. I do not get an erection when a gaming company releases a screenshot from a cutscene, insinuating that this is what their newest title will be like. I do not fall for false hype - nor do I spend my money, based solely on a game's title. It is important that you understand this because I represent a very large demographic that your marketing department should be aware of: the rational, thinking gamer. While Starcraft 2 is still in production, please take into consideration the following wish list compiled by that very group.

1.) We'd like to be able to install our game and then immediately play it.

We've waited almost a full decade for this. We've just spent $50 that could have easily been relocated to our beer and stripper fund. We've called in sick to work and hired a baby sitter so that we could spend the first full day with it. Please don't make us wait two weeks to play it because you're working on a fix for the Protoss Turd-Launcher to correctly launch turds.

This is a trend in the gaming world that has developed over the past ten years or so, has gotten progressively worse with time, and needs to stop immediately. We're not talking about hardware incompatibility here. We're talking about the basic functionality of the game. We'll use World of Warcraft as an example:

In the beginning, there were boats that took the player from continent to continent. Or rather, they were supposed to. In reality what they did was take a player halfway there and then dump them into the ocean, killing the character and wasting thirty minutes of the players' real lives as they resurrected and then traveled back to the same spot, only to have it happen again. The programmers then replaced those boats with "magical portals" while they fixed the problem. Once it was patched, the portals were removed, and the player could once again ride the all-important ships. Only to have it happen again. This cycle persisted for roughly a year.



Not pictured: Boat.

You have testers. Use them. We're not asking for a perfect game because that's an impossible request. Of course there are going to be minor glitches and blemishes here and there. We just want to make sure that, of the three basics [1.)buy game, 2.) install game, 3.) play game], we can access step three. We have the first two covered.

2.) Is there something we can do to eliminate the kiddies from the game, entirely?

At first, I thought this was just a personal request because I'm getting impatient in my old age. However, the more I speak to my peers, the more I find it's a living, breathing, pulsating, universal hatred held by all respectable gamers. None of the kiddies can type in their native language. None of them can respectfully accept defeat without wielding the word "cheater" or "hacker" like a torch to a mob of brain-eating zombies. And all of them have mastered the art of annoyance to the point of breaking at least five protocols of the Geneva Conventions.

We rational gamers offer a few suggestions, if not solutions, to curb this problem.

No matter what the rating is for the game, make this the cover art for Starcraft 2. We don't mean "put it down in the corner so that it appears to be a game meant for players age 17 or older." We want it to be the entire cover, encompassing 100% of the box's surface. We do understand that kids still find ways to obtain games like Grand Theft Auto, and we understand that there are certain parents who don't mind their children playing those types of games with those ratings, but at least this way we can weed out the ones who are too stupid to get around the system. Worst case scenario, we've eliminated the absolute stupidest of the stupid.

I personally suggest creating a mandatory registration form that has to be submitted via the internet before online play is accessible. At the bottom of that registration would be a box wherein the potential Battlenet player would be forced to write a minimum of one hundred words, declaring why they want to play the game. When submitted, if the contents of that box contains a single smiley, misspelled word, or any form of "lol," that player would not only be denied access to online play, but be banned from Battlenet for life and his hard drive melted. Sure, that would exclude a small chunk of adults, too, but only the really stupid ones. That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.


Blame them.



3.) Give us as few useless units as humanly possible.

We understand that there will be specialized units whose only job it is to take out other specialized units. But please make these at least somewhat versatile. To some people, that's a part of the online excitement: out-planning an opponent... watching him rush 100 Carriers into a base, only to see 100 Carrier-****ers tear open 100 condoms in unison. Just don't put us in too many games of rock, paper, scissors where we pump out 25 to 50 specialized troops and then just have them standing around, hoping that our opponent happened to produce their counterparts. At the very least, let us have the ability to hand them a broom and say, "If you got time to lean, you got time to clean."



4.) Few if any indoor maps.

We've already heard statements from Blizzard, saying that they will be focusing more on the online aspect of Starcraft 2. They said that there will be a story mode, just as the original had, but the heart and soul of this game will be found through online play. We understand that, and we won't argue. However, remember this: not all of us are online players.

On a personal level, I have no desire to have my ass handed to me and then endure the broken-English mocking of a twelve year old Korean kid. I do not have plans, neither present nor future, of wading through festering cesspools of hackers, scripters, and exploiters who could have easily beaten me legitimately because of my self-admitted jaw-dropping level of suck. Therefore, my focus will be on the offline play.

The bane of my existence was the indoor levels of Starcraft 1. Running through a fog-of-war maze with a handful of troops, looking for the enemies' iPod is not my idea of fun. I did not enjoy fighting my way eastward through the building and hitting a dead end because the door was locked. Then, fighting back to the west until I found a large glowing circle I could stand on... the way doors are opened in the future. Then running back to the east, through the now-opened door to find another large glowing circle.



"****. The bathroom door is locked, Dave. Is there someone in there?"

"No, in order to open it, you'll have to teleport down to Sector 7. Then, make your way east until you come to the prison gates. Open that door and stand on the circle. That opens the gate in Sector 4, where you'll find three more circles in the northern, southern, and eastern wings. Stand on the eastern wing first, and then-"

"Too late. I pooped a little."

5.) Better movement AI on mass units.

This should have been fixed in the first place, and we hope it never needs fixing in this version. In the original game, if a player massed an army of ground troops and sent them into a tight entrance ("bottleneck" or "choke point"), the first of those units would make it through just fine, but clog that entry point. Those that lagged behind would hit the clog, and thinking that it was impassible, they would attempt to find an alternate route into the enemy base. All we're asking for is a little courteousness from the troops.

Is it so hard to make an AI that tells the units to exercise a little patience? We're not asking that to be smartasses. The vast majority of us have never programmed a game, and never will. It just seems that it wouldn't be all that complicated to tell the battalion to walk in a single file line when going through that type of entrance. Or at the very least, give them a line of code that tells them not to travel half the map in the wrong direction just because the troops in front are walking a little too slowly for their taste.


6.) Take your time. We're in no hurry.

That statement may sting a little for anxious gamers, but those are the people we're thinking of when we say it. We want you, the staff responsible for designing arguably the most anticipated computer game ever produced, to take your time and make sure that what you package is something you're proud of. If it takes a few extra months to put on the finishing touches, the by all means do so. We've been waiting for this game for almost a decade, so you have a lot to live up to.

We are a generation of whining, crying, *****ing, moaning, impatient pussies. No matter what you do, there will be an insufferable barrage of complaints being hammered out by preteens, frothing at the mouth and nitpicking every pixel of every map, just hoping to find something - anything that they can use to feed their insatiable urge to be heard... even if they have nothing to say. It is to be expected because the overwhelming majority of today's gamers are semi-retarded douchebags by nature. Just please - pretty please - don't give them a legitimate reason to do so. It only helps the kiddies justify their flaming idiocy.



He needs just one reason. Any reason at all.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
The indoor maps complaint has to die.

And he totally missed the move AI getting strung out in a friggin' line like some kind of idiots, so they can get picked off piecemeal. I've never seen the problem he's talking about, but I can say straight up that having a line of 40 marines rather then the 40 of them on-line and all able to fire on a target if one appears.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
Quote
Dear Blizzard,

I am a gamer. Contrary to the current stereotype, I am not fat. Nor do I live in a basement, nor with my parents. I do not get an erection when a gaming company releases a screenshot from a cutscene, insinuating that this is what their newest title will be like. I do not fall for false hype - nor do I spend my money, based solely on a game's title. It is important that you understand this because I represent a very large demographic that your marketing department should be aware of: the rational, thinking gamer. While Starcraft 2 is still in production, please take into consideration the following wish list compiled by that very group.

The moment I got to the second sentence I knew this would be highly entertaining. :lol:
Now, a couple of his concerns were legititmate: it would be nice to have fewer preteens on-line, or not have the AI run all the way around the map (although that could be solved by simply... keeping track of one's own troops), but I don't really know what Blizzard could do about it.
Not that they would take this guy seriously. His ideas on how to stop kids from getting on-line were ludicrous (yes, I know he was not being completely serious). :p
"You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" -DEATH, Discworld

"You can fight like a krogan, run like a leopard, but you'll never be better than Commander Shepard!"

 

Offline IceFire

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
Yeah not sure what to do with all of the idiots online :)

No really they bug me too but they are everywhere...games of Battlefield 2 can't be played without dozens of insults and obscenities being spewed forth intermixed with some racially charged comments and oh god its like a cesspool of the lowest IQ people around.  WarCraft 3 games are hardly better... once had a game back years ago where the other team lost but someone managed to hack their way with a single unit into a forest somewhere and it took an additional 20 minutes to find the unit (can't happen anymore as you need at least one building before you're revealed) on the large map.  These people need to die :)
- IceFire
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"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
they need to do what you have in the kingdom of loathing, you have to pass a literacy test to use the chat features :D
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
My hopes for Starcraft 2 have just gone up a little, after looking at the Thor and the new upgrade for the Battlecruiser (16 lazers shooting simuntaniusly? Hell YEAH! )
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Offline Prophet

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
...the new upgrade for the Battlecruiser (16 lazers shooting simuntaniusly? Hell YEAH! )
You sure you weren't dreaming?
I'm not saying anything. I did not say anything then and I'm not saying anything now. -Dukath
I am not breaking radio silence just cos' you lot got spooked by a dead flying ****ing cow. -Sergeant Harry Wells/Dog Soldiers


Prophet is walking in the deep dark places of the earth...

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
Some latest 700MB large gameplay video, showing a lot of stuff


Teh battelcruisers has a slighty different forward section with several (8 methinks) gun barrels and a red laser (like a shivan beam) came out of EACH barrel...looked sweet.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
Unless they are multi-tracking, it's just eyecandy.

 

Offline Prophet

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
Why dont you link us to this oh so revolutionary video?
I'm not saying anything. I did not say anything then and I'm not saying anything now. -Dukath
I am not breaking radio silence just cos' you lot got spooked by a dead flying ****ing cow. -Sergeant Harry Wells/Dog Soldiers


Prophet is walking in the deep dark places of the earth...

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
Have no idea, my roomate showed it to me, but I think something was very wrong with either hte file he downloaded or his PC - the whole video was very slow...like looking someone playing at 5 FPS. :doubt:
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

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Offline IceFire

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
http://www.starcraft2.com/movies.xml

Gameplay Video - Terran. Its a neat video for sure.  Takes you through some of the new and old Terran units and shows off how some of the balance will work.

TrashMan: Your roomates computer might be too slow or not configured properly to play a 720p video.  I remember my old AMD 2700+ struggled but my new Core 2 with a 8600GTS works very nicely.  On the Battlecruiser, according to the update today, there are two upgrade options for the Battlecruiser (not sure how that works, may be selected per unit) one with the Yamato cannon which is back pretty much unaltered and one with "Plasma Torpedoes" which is the scattered laser effect which doesn't last long but it looks like it lays down some serious hurt over a wide area.
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."

 

Offline Prophet

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
Hmph. I'm not impressed.

Sure the battlecruiser took a step in the right direction, but that's it. And stationary air units are so incredibly lame, but it's the way of Starcraft I suppose.

Units have piss poor range and they can't shoot on the move = huge traffic jams that get everyone killed. Disappearing bodies and adamantium terrain and vegetation are an eyesore. If you want to have huge amounts of fire power in a game, at least make it look like it.

What I do like: The graphics are nice, though it remains to be seen if I can enjoy them. So it's a moot point.
And I like Starcraft. But that too remains to be seen when the game is released.
That's all. You understand why I'm concerned?

So far it looks like a Starcraft game made for hardcore Starcraft fans. Extreme rock-paper-scissors, and game mechanics from 1998... Not what I hoped for.
I'm not saying anything. I did not say anything then and I'm not saying anything now. -Dukath
I am not breaking radio silence just cos' you lot got spooked by a dead flying ****ing cow. -Sergeant Harry Wells/Dog Soldiers


Prophet is walking in the deep dark places of the earth...

 

Offline IceFire

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
Its basically just StarCraft with a few new units and some slightly different game mechanics.  Supreme Commander is more of the revolutionary type of RTS with major changes in how RTS is played.  SC2 really isn't looking that way.  I think Blizzard would face a major backlash if they really changed the game mechanics allot. I'm not sure but I think they are being somewhat conservative with how they are doing it but I think to myself that if I were in their situation I'd be basically doing the same thing.  Can you blame them?
- IceFire
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Offline Prophet

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Re: Starcraft 2: It's official.
My problem isn't exactly that the mechanics are from Starcraft. It's that the mechanics are from 1998. Or more to the point the look of the battle, is from 1998. Adding weapon range would make it look more cool. But what I hope they could still do is adding more animation to the little guys. For ****s sake they are standing still and shooting. Or standing still and slashing with something. Little more lively animation would make it look like a real battle. I'm seeing some creative death animations in the videos but other than that, the fighting looks boring.
Weapons fire has very little visible effect on anything, terrain or units, except for the impact sprite.

Other major gripe I have are the air units. Floating still and shooting? As long as I have played RTS I have hated that. Though you are right in that chancing that in to something else would make the koreans rebel or something. Too bad.

The unit scale is cartoony. I could understand it in Starcraft. But in this day and age with this technology, you'd think the scale could be a bit more believeable.

I know Supreme Commander is the king now and I never had any delusions of Starcraft 2 getting anywhere near it. But Age of Empires 3 had more visually appealing fireworks that what I saw in those vids. No. I'm really not looking forward for this.
I'm not saying anything. I did not say anything then and I'm not saying anything now. -Dukath
I am not breaking radio silence just cos' you lot got spooked by a dead flying ****ing cow. -Sergeant Harry Wells/Dog Soldiers


Prophet is walking in the deep dark places of the earth...