[Maxwell]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6172931.html

Take-Two Interactive Software has temporarily suspended plans to distribute Manhunt 2 for the Wii or PlayStation platforms while it reviews its options with regard to the recent decisions made by the British Board of Film Classification and Entertainment Software Rating Board

Thoughts?

[Flipside]

1) Take Two kept pushing the line, the point was bound to come where they would cross it, else what is the point of the BBFC and the ESRB. It may well be that this game simply didn't match the criteria for an 'M' rating.

2) This genre of game became famous through the efforts of censors, it continues through the efforts of censors, like 'Slasher' movies, once the commotion dies down they'll sink back down to a sub-genre and other types of game will be more in public eye, leading, hopefully to a bit more diversification.

3) However, despite 1) and 2) I still think the problem in the US is the fact that there is such a massive phsychological difference between M and AO. It got banned in the UK, which DID concern me, the problem with banning something is that you have no option but accept that the game deserved banning, it's a vicious circle.

[Mefustae]

After having seen trailers, I convey no ill will toward the British Board of Film Classification and Entertainment Software Rating Board. Seriously, that game looked pretty ****ed up. I'm fine with ultra-violent content, but the creativity they displayed with the Wii controller just took it a bit too far, y'know?

[Scuddie]

I can see how manhunt 2 being AO is justified.  In slasher movies, you are viewing someone else's story.  As gory as it is, it's a static rendering.  However, Manhunt 2 is just like a slasher film, with the exception of it being your story, and everything being interactive.  This is not like the 'cop killing' debacle in San Andreas.  That game was about some guy who got screwed by the police, and going through different areas to get lucrative power.  You can (and should) go the entire game without so much as collateral damage.  The game was not based around cop killing (with the exception of one).  Manhunt 2, however, is based around brutal tortures, disturbing images, and murders.  It is this kind of game that deserves an AO rating.  Not only because of the content, but because of the context.  If I was going to compare it to a movie, I wouldn't compare it to a slasher film, but a snuff film.

This is from someone who says San Andreas was just bad enough to get an M rating, hot coffee or not.

[Flipside]

Well, to be honest, Manhunt 1's story was closer to the description that tends to be made for Manhunt 2, in Manhunt 1 you were making snuff movies. In Manhunt 2, you are trapped in an asylum with the other inmates, and everyone is trying to kill everyone else, though the periods of torture concern me, you can either make a phsychological horror or a gore-horror, but making both won't make you popular.

As for interactiveness, there's so many opinions flying in all directions that I really haven't made my mind up yet, I do know it has an effect, but how pronounced or 'real' that effect is, I couldn't even begin to say.

The thing is, I'll always see them as meshes and bitmaps, no matter how detailed they are.

[Nuke]

sell it to the us

[Unknown Target]

Rockstar is nothing more than a dev studio that deliberately tries to push the line as far as it can go - that's their major claim to fame. I really wouldn't mind if they got taken down a notch or two, they're giving all of gamers a bad name. That being said, I don't know anything about Manhunt 2, so I can't really comment on it's banning.

EDIT: After looking it up, I must say I am slightly disappointed that the game got banned, only because it seemed to actually take advantage of the Wiimote to immerse the player in the game (which is a bad thing when it applies to this game specifically, I'd think). It would be nice to see other games taking such advantage of the new system.

[Roanoke]

I think it's fair to say most of the outrage is because "none-gamers" believe games are still only for kids and to ignore age ratings shows ignorance beyond belief.

[Mefustae]

I think it's fair to say most of the outrage is because "none-gamers" believe games are still only for kids and to ignore age ratings shows ignorance beyond belief.

QFT

On IGN, they note the reaction to this by the National Institute on Media and the Family (NIMF):

"Hopefully Take-Two has learned from its Manhunt 2 experience and will undertake preventive measures to ensure its future games, including Grand Theft Auto IV, are appropriate for families and gamers."

Excuse me? That's like saying the porn industry should be shut down because it isn't appropriate for children! The belief that games exist purely for children seems to be far too widespread for comfort.

[Maxwell]

Rockstar is nothing more than a dev studio that deliberately tries to push the line as far as it can go

When developers don't push the limits of content or gameplay what we end up getting is more of the same.  No ones going to invest millions of dollars into adult products if theres no waiting market to offload them on.   
My fear is that instead of working to sell their games through new venues, publishers will simply cull these products and favor less controversial material.
If you cant hold the attention of a mature audience it will be harder to sell innovation.

[Wobble73]

Anybody hear about that other game, Law and Order : Double or Nothing (developed by Legacy)? I heard it included a photo of Jamie Bulger being led away by Jon Venables and Robert Thompson. Thank goodness they withdrew it from the market, utterly despicable! 

[brozozo]

Anybody hear about that other game, Law and Order : Double or Nothing (developed by Legacy)? I heard it included a photo of Jamie Bulger being led away by Jon Venables and Robert Thompson. Thank goodness they withdrew it from the market, utterly despicable! 

You forgot to say "Someone think of the children. Oh, won't someone please think of the children!"

[karajorma]

What a lot of whinging about nothing.

What the game actually included was a screen where one of the detectives has a picture tacked to the corkboard behind him that looks similar to that photo. Nevermind that the photo was included by some game developer who probably had no clue what the picture was about. Nevermind that the game was released in 2003 and this is the first time anyone has actually noticed that fact. Nevermind that we're dealing about a maybe 60x60 pixel image that is probably barely recognisable unless you're actually told what it is.

Here you go. Take a look at the offending image for yourselves.

Obviously seeing that image in a game is so traumatic that the game should be noisily boycotted and banned and the story should be splashed over every newspaper in the country along with a full resolution image of the original picture. Instead of quietly explaining to the game producers what that image is and why it should be replaced.

EDIT : In fact all this whole sorry debacle does is make me want to get a copy of the game. I probably would too if it weren't for the fact that I'd have to put up with the ****ty American theme tune instead of the cool Rob Dougan one that us Brits get.

[SadisticSid]

Rockstar is nothing more than a dev studio that deliberately tries to push the line as far as it can go - that's their major claim to fame. I really wouldn't mind if they got taken down a notch or two, they're giving all of gamers a bad name. That being said, I don't know anything about Manhunt 2, so I can't really comment on it's banning.

I think that's an unjustified assessment (well, unless you're looking at Postal 2 anyway). The GTA games were technically marvelous for their times, and are still tremendous fun to play now. And whatever you may think of the content, it's the people buying the games that make the company so successful. If GTA offended so many sensibilities, it wouldn't be one of the largest game franchises in the world.

[brozozo]

What a lot of whinging about nothing.

What the game actually included was a screen where one of the detectives has a picture tacked to the corkboard behind him that looks similar to that photo. Nevermind that the photo was included by some game developer who probably had no clue what the picture was about. Nevermind that the game was released in 2003 and this is the first time anyone has actually noticed that fact. Nevermind that we're dealing about a maybe 60x60 pixel image that is probably barely recognisable unless you're actually told what it is.

Here you go. Take a look at the offending image for yourselves.

Obviously seeing that image in a game is so traumatic that the game should be noisily boycotted and banned and the story should be splashed over every newspaper in the country along with a full resolution image of the original picture. Instead of quietly explaining to the game producers what that image is and why it should be replaced.

EDIT : In fact all this whole sorry debacle does is make me want to get a copy of the game. I probably would too if it weren't for the fact that I'd have to put up with the ****ty American theme tune instead of the cool Rob Dougan one that us Brits get.

Thanks for putting my opinion into words so well.

And don't you dare speak ill of the Law and Order theme song. It is an American CLASSIC and you dirty brits don't deserve it.

[Flipside]

Bring back Jan Hammer, that's what I say

[Unknown Target]

I think that's an unjustified assessment (well, unless you're looking at Postal 2 anyway). The GTA games were technically marvelous for their times, and are still tremendous fun to play now. And whatever you may think of the content, it's the people buying the games that make the company so successful. If GTA offended so many sensibilities, it wouldn't be one of the largest game franchises in the world.

Well that's GTA - what about hot coffee? Granted, that was a "hidden" feature, but they obviously meant someone to find it if it was so easy to get to. That, and this game, which they're deliberately trying to make as violent as possible, just to drum up a media blitz.

Don't get me wrong, I think that publishers should push the line and try and innovate as much as possible, but when it stops being integral to the game and being more and more about just how gory they can get, it's pretty stupid - kind of like how the wave of horror movies these days are just bloodbaths with no suspense, just gore gore gore.

[Turey]

I'd agree that giving the Playstation version an "AO" is probably overkill.

I'm still undecided on the Wii version.

[Flipside]

Well, that's the thing about the Wii though, people say you can mimic real life actions on it, but the fact it, there are several broken plasma screens around that signify that this isn't the case.

I think the Wii controller is massively overblown, as Penny Arcade pointed out not too long ago, you can wave the thing around like an chimp with a flyswatter, but you don't have to, and, in fact, the art of using the Wii is learning how NOT to use it like a real bowling ball/sword etc.

[Maxwell]

The fact is its still a game and people WANT to pretend its a real sword or bowling ball, just like they want to pretend mouse-1 is the trigger of a real assault rifle.  Kids have been waving around sticks and pretending to be knights and bandits since the beginning of time with no ill effects.
Imaginary play does not harm people.