Author Topic: Shivan sociology -- help!  (Read 15429 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nico

  • Venom
    Parlez-vous Model Magician?
  • 212
 
Quote
Originally posted by jonskowitz:
...and I thought I was the only lunatic who did that   , glad to know I'm not alone    

[This message has been edited by jonskowitz (edited 12-21-2001).]

you're definitively not the only one   count me in  

SCREW CANON!

 

Offline Setekh

  • Jar of Clay
  • 215
    • Hard Light Productions
 
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael:
I never got the impression that the mindworms were created by the Progenitors. Maybe I should go back and replay the game (if I can get it to install again.   My CD seems to have a scratch in a critical place.)

Well, they might not have been created specifically, but the Progenitors created the entire planet, and its ecology, with the goal of bringing an entire planet to sentience. But, after the Tau Ceti Flowering, they realised how catastrophic this Planet could be - so came to stop it, basically. But anyway, I'm guessing since they created the planet, its ecology, and the xenofungus that could gain sentience, I took it that they created the whole bundle too - including Mindworms, Locusts of Chiron, and Isles of the Deep. Just my guess, anyway.  
- Eddie Kent Woo, Setekh, Steak (of Steaks), AWACS. Seriously, just pick one.
HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS, now V3.0. Bringing Modders Together since January 2001.
THE HARD LIGHT ARRAY. Always makes you say wow.

 

Offline mikhael

  • Back to skool
  • 211
  • Fnord!
    • http://www.google.com/search?q=404error.com
 
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh:
Well, they might not have been created specifically, but the Progenitors created the entire planet, and its ecology, with the goal of bringing an entire planet to sentience. But, after the Tau Ceti Flowering, they realised how catastrophic this Planet could be - so came to stop it, basically. But anyway, I'm guessing since they created the planet, its ecology, and the xenofungus that could gain sentience, I took it that they created the whole bundle too - including Mindworms, Locusts of Chiron, and Isles of the Deep. Just my guess, anyway.  

Wait: is this stuff revealed in the Alien Crossfire expansion? You're talking about a lot of stuff I don't remember at all. I never picked up Alien Crossfire. :/


------------------
--Mik
http://www.404error.com
ruhkferret on ICQ/AIM
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline Setekh

  • Jar of Clay
  • 215
    • Hard Light Productions
Oh, you haven't played Crossfire!   My bad... yeh, a lot of what I was saying occurred in Crossfire, when the Progenitors returned to Planet.  
- Eddie Kent Woo, Setekh, Steak (of Steaks), AWACS. Seriously, just pick one.
HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS, now V3.0. Bringing Modders Together since January 2001.
THE HARD LIGHT ARRAY. Always makes you say wow.

 

Offline mikhael

  • Back to skool
  • 211
  • Fnord!
    • http://www.google.com/search?q=404error.com
 
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh:
Oh, you haven't played Crossfire!   My bad... yeh, a lot of what I was saying occurred in Crossfire, when the Progenitors returned to Planet.  

*heh* And I was going along thinking that Charon was developing sentience naturally. Transcendence is such a kickass way to win.

I'll pick up Crossfire one of these days when I see it on the bargain rack with SMAC included. My CD has a horrific scratch that makes it unreadable.  
 

------------------
--Mik
http://www.404error.com
ruhkferret on ICQ/AIM
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline Setekh

  • Jar of Clay
  • 215
    • Hard Light Productions
 
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael:
*heh* And I was going along thinking that Charon was developing sentience naturally. Transcendence is such a kickass way to win.

I'll pick up Crossfire one of these days when I see it on the bargain rack with SMAC included. My CD has a horrific scratch that makes it unreadable.  
 

Transcendence is definitely the best.   Who do you play? I'm a researcher myself, so I'm always the University.

Oh and you know what? I was trying to find Crossfire in my local EB for a friend but was disappointed to find that they'd discontinued stock. And guess what? Firaxis.com discontinued too.  

And for your CD... have you got some Mr. Sheen around? Or can you get your hands on some?  
- Eddie Kent Woo, Setekh, Steak (of Steaks), AWACS. Seriously, just pick one.
HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS, now V3.0. Bringing Modders Together since January 2001.
THE HARD LIGHT ARRAY. Always makes you say wow.

 

Offline mikhael

  • Back to skool
  • 211
  • Fnord!
    • http://www.google.com/search?q=404error.com
 
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh:
Transcendence is definitely the best.   Who do you play? I'm a researcher myself, so I'm always the University.

Oh and you know what? I was trying to find Crossfire in my local EB for a friend but was disappointed to find that they'd discontinued stock. And guess what? Firaxis.com discontinued too.  

And for your CD... have you got some Mr. Sheen around? Or can you get your hands on some?  

I have two different factions, each because I like my rather twisted take on their goals/methods.

My first, and favorite, is Chairman Shenjii Yang of the Human Hive. I figure that he's got a simple goal in mind: Everyone is a part of the Hive, everyone is a cog in his Great Machine. Everything will be done, anything will be sacrificed for that goal. The people will be his hands and eyes. He will be their brain. The Empath Guild and the Living City are two of his most important posessions. The Hive is One and that One is Chairman Yang.  

On the other hand, I also like to be the Stepdaughters of Gaia. I don't like their usual green bent though, and naturally twist it about. I make them aggressive and expansionist. Anyone, anything, that gets in their way will be left on the field of battle to feed the trees.  



------------------
--Mik
http://www.404error.com
ruhkferret on ICQ/AIM
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline joek

  • Heh heh... not funny.
  • 27
    • http://www.joek.com/
 
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh:
Transcendence is definitely the best.   Who do you play? I'm a researcher myself, so I'm always the University.

I always play the Peacekeepers. They're just so neutral that I find I can do just about anything with them. And having double votes in planetary elections is just too good to pass up.  

Joe.

------------------
No, he's not back for real, just popping his head in to say "hello" while on break from classes.

 

Offline mikhael

  • Back to skool
  • 211
  • Fnord!
    • http://www.google.com/search?q=404error.com
 
Quote
Originally posted by joek:
I always play the Peacekeepers. They're just so neutral that I find I can do just about anything with them. And having double votes in planetary elections is just too good to pass up.  

Joe.


When you control the Empath Guild, and your hives cover Planet, you already control the elections. Not even the Peacekeepers can challenge you.  



------------------
--Mik
http://www.404error.com
ruhkferret on ICQ/AIM
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 

Offline Setekh

  • Jar of Clay
  • 215
    • Hard Light Productions
 
Quote
Originally posted by mikhael:
I have two different factions, each because I like my rather twisted take on their goals/methods.

My first, and favorite, is Chairman Shenjii Yang of the Human Hive. I figure that he's got a simple goal in mind: Everyone is a part of the Hive, everyone is a cog in his Great Machine. Everything will be done, anything will be sacrificed for that goal. The people will be his hands and eyes. He will be their brain. The Empath Guild and the Living City are two of his most important posessions. The Hive is One and that One is Chairman Yang.    

On the other hand, I also like to be the Stepdaughters of Gaia. I don't like their usual green bent though, and naturally twist it about. I make them aggressive and expansionist. Anyone, anything, that gets in their way will be left on the field of battle to feed the trees.  

You sure are twisted, dude.   I must admit, the Hive are pretty cool - I find their perimeter defences invaluable, and as you know, he can make some mean sacrifices to achieve his goals, so you don't want to be on his bad side!  

The Gaians I liked for a while too, especially for their Mindworm capture skills. I tended to fill up the map with Demon Boils mindlessly wandering along the Xenofungus, searching for other Mindworms to devour. In fact, that was my main source of income (the Planetpearls from the worms' husks), more than solar/tidal power and commerce. But then, with the correct social settings and appropriate research to back them up, the University can produce the same 75% mindworm capture chance.  
- Eddie Kent Woo, Setekh, Steak (of Steaks), AWACS. Seriously, just pick one.
HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS, now V3.0. Bringing Modders Together since January 2001.
THE HARD LIGHT ARRAY. Always makes you say wow.

 

Offline mikhael

  • Back to skool
  • 211
  • Fnord!
    • http://www.google.com/search?q=404error.com
 
Quote
Originally posted by Setekh:
You sure are twisted, dude.   I must admit, the Hive are pretty cool - I find their perimeter defences invaluable, and as you know, he can make some mean sacrifices to achieve his goals, so you don't want to be on his bad side!  

The Gaians I liked for a while too, especially for their Mindworm capture skills. I tended to fill up the map with Demon Boils mindlessly wandering along the Xenofungus, searching for other Mindworms to devour. In fact, that was my main source of income (the Planetpearls from the worms' husks), more than solar/tidal power and commerce. But then, with the correct social settings and appropriate research to back them up, the University can produce the same 75% mindworm capture chance.  

Income? I never worry about income in the late game.   By that point, I'm also not looking to capture mindworms. I'm breeding Demon Boils of Locusts. The mindworms are yet another extension of Our Will, Our Mind.  


------------------
--Mik
http://www.404error.com
ruhkferret on ICQ/AIM
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]

 
The shivans Might have only been as far as the lucifer destroyer-wise during the great war. It takes time to biuld massive ships. Sathanas ships are easily produced by the shivans due to their superior technology, and their size. It probably took the shivans those 20 years to build the 80 juggernauts. Since Terrans and Vasudans are inferior to the shivans technology-wise and boilogical-wise, we would have had a more difficult time building a juggernaut.

 

Offline LtNarol

  • Biased Banshee
  • 211
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/the158th
ok, heres my theory from the top:

Shivans evolved orignally on a low-g planet/moon, hence the generally small body and long limbs.  This also would make it easy for them to adapt to 0-g.  When they became a space fairing race, they eventually adapted to zero-g.  Their movement in 0-g conditions and their long limbs support the theory that they are specifically adapted to such an environment.

This does not rule out the possibility of artificial enhancement, and certain characteristics of shivans go a long ways to prove that.  The nice spiffy plasma cannons they mount on their shoulders is most definitely artificial in origin, yet the way they are attached to the arms suggests not a mear snap-on attachment, but a more permanent one.  Also, the armor plating on their bodies do not appear to be organic, infact, they are very metalic looking.  This also suggests that the shivans are possibly enhanced in ways more complex than cosmetically applied plating.

It is very possible that shivans are cybernetically enhanced to be speciallized killers.  Their control over the shoulder mounted plasma cannons suggests at the very least a cybernetic interface allowing the brain to send commands to the weapons without the use of an appendage to pull the trigger.

As for the hive mind idea, if shivans were composed of a hive mind then there would be no need for communications subsystems on their ships, or comm nodes because they would already be connected.  Also, shivans were highly disorganized after the destruction of the Lucifer the tech archives say, were they a hive mind then they would still have been able to reorganize and cooridnate.

Thats my two cents, nothing more.

------------------
158th Banshee Squadron http://3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/the158th/  
Into the Night Campaign http://3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/the158th/itn/

 

Offline mikhael

  • Back to skool
  • 211
  • Fnord!
    • http://www.google.com/search?q=404error.com
 
Quote
Originally posted by LtNarol:
ok, heres my theory from the top:
Shivans evolved orignally on a low-g planet/moon, hence the generally small body and long limbs.  This also would make it easy for them to adapt to 0-g.  When they became a space fairing race, they eventually adapted to zero-g.  Their movement in 0-g conditions and their long limbs support the theory that they are specifically adapted to such an environment.
I agree with you on the low-g evolution thing and go further to suggest an arboreal origin as well. Those legs and arms at those odd angles are very well suited for climbing.

 
Quote

... Also, the armor plating on their bodies do not appear to be organic, infact, they are very metalic looking.  ...
You may never have seen terran arhropods such as certain box and wolf spiders, or many scarab beetles. Some species of terran arthropods have metallic chitin. Whereas a black widow spider has glossy black chitin, there are species of box spider that have golden, glittering patches on their's. Some south american scarab beetles and at least one north american scarab beetle, are entirely metallic, mandible tip to tail tip. I don't see any reason to presuppose that the plates are not natural. I agree that they are cybernetically enhanced, and the plasma weapons are very likely add-ons.

 
Quote

As for the hive mind idea, if shivans were composed of a hive mind then there would be no need for communications subsystems on their ships, or comm nodes because they would already be connected.  Also, shivans were highly disorganized after the destruction of the Lucifer the tech archives say, were they a hive mind then they would still have been able to reorganize and cooridnate.
Bah. The hive mind theory bites. I don't have a better way to put it. I firmly believe that Shivans are all individuals. They have civilians with jobs in the Shivan version of burger joints. There are Shivan office workers and janitors and panhandlers. They're just like us, but they look different, and they have a different agenda, which includes their military introducing us to hard vaccuum early and often.




------------------
--Mik
http://www.404error.com
ruhkferret on ICQ/AIM

"Your guy was a little SQUARE! You had to use your IMAGINATION! There were no multiple levels or screens. There was just one screen forever and you could never win the game. It just kept getting harder and faster until you died. JUST LIKE LIFE." --Ernie Cline
[I am not really here. This post is entirely a figment of your imagination.]