Author Topic: Mission editing question  (Read 3514 times)

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Mission editing question
Hi,

Although Wing Commander games takes place in a fictional universe in the future, essance of the space battles always reminded me pacific naval sea battles that took place during WWII.

Since we have a very handy mission editor in our hands, I came to a conclusion that a single mission can be prepared reminding one of these historic battles. 

I'm working on a mission like that now.  I picked up one of the late battles in pacific. First, a little background about the battle that I picked up.
May be some of you have heard of "Great Marianas Turkey Shoot".

Battle of the Philippine Sea was an air-sea battle that was fought during the late stages of the pacific campaign in June 19 and June 20, 1944. This battle was fought between Imperial Japanese Navy and American Forces and was one of the major air-sea battles during the campaign.
Result was a decisive American victory.

The air and sea assets that joined the battle was;

US Battlegroup:
7 fleet carriers,
8 light carriers,
7 battleships,
79 other ships,
28 submarines,
956 planes

IJN (Imperial Japanese Navy):
5 fleet carriers,
4 light carriers,
5 battleships,
43 other ships,
450 carrier-based planes,
300 land-based planes


Aftermath was;

US Battlegroup:
123 of the 956 airplanes destroyed, approximatelly crews of the 80 survived)

IJN (Imperial Japanese Navy):
3 carriers sunk,
2 oilers sunk,
about 600 planes destroyed,
6 other ships heavily damaged

Like in most of the WWII pacific air-sea battles, battle took place between very large battlegroups.

This time casualities were low for the American side only because Japanese forces used inexperienced pilots and outdated aircraft for the battle.

According to some hearings, after the battle was over a pilot on USS LEXINGTON   :D was heard describing the battle saying , "Hell, this is like an old time turkey shoot!".

Because of this the battle was also named as the “Great Marianas Turkey Shoot”.

After  this little explaination now lets talk about the mission.  :D

Actually I’m a beginner for FRED 2 but, I was able do some things although I’m new to mission making.

Firstly mission is starting with two rival battle groups advancing each other. I first thought to add a scout patrol stage in the beginning but than I skipped the idea. But  I’m planning to add that if I understand and solve the basics of autopilot feature. 

As obvious  the player is a confed pilot and for this mission he is flying a thunderbolt in Alpha wing. I must say I used a lot of fighter and bomber wings and great amount of capital ships to give the essance of the original battle.

I prepared a background ambieance with some nebulas and a planet (named strangely Marianas  ;))

Both sides advance towards each other and, engagement starts. I tested the mission and till this point it is working nearly fine.   
I placed a lot of radio chatter at the beginning stage (some how luckilly, I could manage to record some sound  files and combine them with some animation  files  :nod:)

I tried to record the radio chatter in a certain  way, that gives the player the feeling of real military radio traffic. Some might say it may not be neccessary but I think in a large operational  theatre like the one we’re talking about  there should be lots radio traffic  not only among air wings but also among capital ships as well. :)

For the later stages of the mission, I’m planning the arrival of the confed reinforcements to the engagement area and close the circle . Because of this  right now I’m working on adding some more fighters and capital ships for both sides in order to increase the lengt of the battle though I don’t know how many I can add. Probaby there may be some engine  restrictions.  :doubt:

Now I have some questions;

1- Using single waypoint path for fighter wings are working but when I do the same with cap ships they advance to a single waypoint where they start to crash into each other.

To avoid this happening, I used seperate  waypoint orders and seperate waypoint 1 paths for each cap ship to make them advance towards each other in an orderly fashion .

But some how this does not look right to me. Although it is working flawlessly,  there are too many waypoints right now and I want to decrease the amount. I’m sure there is a way to do that. But I couldn’t find it.

2- When me  or one of my wingmen hits and destroys an enemy fighter,  strangely the animation I see on the massage screen does not belong to a dying Kilrathi but to a dying confed pilot. And sometimes  when a kilrathi fighter kills one of the confed fighters the massage this time belongs to a kilrathi pilot not a confed pilot.   :wtf:

I could not understand why this happens. Probably I’m making a mistake. Because I didn’t see that happening when I was playing the Prologue campaign or other single missions.  :confused:

Can you help me solving my problems please?

Thank you

Best Regards.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Mission editing question
Hmmmmm. Usually I'd spend ages warning new FREDders about the dangers of making big missions but it seems I always put them off making any missions as a result so I'll stick to saying that if it becomes too hard, try something a little smaller first. :)


As for your problems, you've not really got a problem for point 1. You do have to use multiple waypoints for multiple ships.

2) There are two possible causes for this. The first is a table error (which would be something the team has to fix) the second is a persona error which you can do yourself. From the description of the problem I'd suspect it was actually the former but I can't seen anything wrong based on a quick glance at the tables.

Either way this should cure the problem.

Select all the Confed fighters and bombers (either individually or dragging a box round them/using the selection menu). Now press SHIFT + S to open the ships editor. See the option for persona? Make sure that all the Confed ships have a suitable Confed persona. Now repeat that for the Kilrathi. The game should have been assigning Confed and Kilrathi personae automatically but that should fix it if it's screwed that up for some reason.
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Offline Shade

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Re: Mission editing question
For #1, if you're really set on reducing the number of waypoints, you could put the capship waypoint way farther out (say, 10.000km) than where you want the ships to go and then clear-goals once they reach the desired location. That will make the convergence of the ships due to being on the same waypoint path insignificant within the mission area.
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Offline Tolwyn

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Re: Mission editing question
2- When me  or one of my wingmen hits and destroys an enemy fighter,  strangely the animation I see on the massage screen does not belong to a dying Kilrathi but to a dying confed pilot. And sometimes  when a kilrathi fighter kills one of the confed fighters the massage this time belongs to a kilrathi pilot not a confed pilot.   :wtf:

I could not understand why this happens. Probably I’m making a mistake. Because I didn’t see that happening when I was playing the Prologue campaign or other single missions.  :confused:


Sort of. You have to use Wingmen07-10 personas for the cats.

Besides, try a couple of simple missions first. :) I often run into balancing issues when I am about to make a large battle for Saga. Besides, it is very likely that you will run into 100 ships FRED limitation. Although this limit has been removed in the newer versions of FRED a random bug may prevent from adding more ships to the mission area.
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 :D Problem is solved when I used Wingmen07-10 personas for the cats.

And for the cap ship movement; if there is no other way except what shade says, I think I'll stick with seperate waypoint paths. Because at one stage I want both rival battlefleets to meet at a range where they will not be able fire more cap ship missiles to each other with gun salvos.

Thank you very much for your answers. :)

Best regards.

 
Oh by the way,

There is another issue though;

I'm speaking about a large fleet battle so this means I shall add some Kilrathi carriers as well as confed ones. Although for Kilrathis I think Fralthi II class cruisers are as strong as Rangers carriers of the confed and enough fighter cover, I think Kirathi carriers would be a nice addition. I added Ranger and Lexington class carriers for confed fleet but it would be nice to add one or two Concordia class carriers too. But unfortunately there are no models of such ships for both sides in the editor right now.  :blah:

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Mission editing question
Sort of. You have to use Wingmen07-10 personas for the cats.

Now that was puzzling me when I took a quick glance at your tables. You shouldn't have to do that. From what I could see both message.tbl and species_defs.tbl were correctly set up. The very act of placing a Kilrathi ship should automatically give it a Kilrathi persona.

 That's what we did with the Cylons in BtRL and as far as I know we haven't had any problems with messages from one race appearing on ships from the other.

I'll try taking another look.
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Offline Tolwyn

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Re: Mission editing question
i believe that cats were set up as vasudans in the tbl in the prologue. Also, in Hermes there are different cats (can't go into details now;)), so that selecting correct personas will be essential. :)
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Tolwyn’s reputation for risk taking with other people’s lives was considered  to understate the facts. The admiral’s willingness to sacrifice anyone or anything to achieve his objectives had long been lauded in the popular press. He was “the man who got things done”.- Colonel Blair

No errors, no random CTDs, just pure fun and proof of why getting hit with missiles is a bad thing.
-WC Saga's beta tester


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Offline karajorma

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Re: Mission editing question
Well you should be able to specify new races via species_defs and save yourself the hassle. You should only need to use the persona option when you want to be certain a specific ship has a specific persona attached.
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