[SadisticSid]

Evangelion is either the best anime ever or psycho head**** nonsense. I think the reason people are so divided on the issue is because it's so disconnected from reality and human nature that this grates on a lot of people who aren't depressive  teenagers (i.e. Japanese, or a fair chunk of the western anime crowd). To me it's trite and boring, a plot so riddled with deus ex machina plot devices and emotional melodrama that there's no time for a deep story. Rip out the scenes between the giant monsters fighting each other and it'd be a laugh. But for me it's a mirthless emo wankfest with a cast consisting entirely of abused/weak-willed/unloved emotional wrecks and that does nothing for me.

Ahh, that feels better to say out loud.

[pecenipicek]

when you're one of those nerve-wrecks, trust me, it works in you in different ways then when you're somewhat normal.

[TrashMan]

Evangelion is either the best anime ever or psycho head**** nonsense.

And everything in between too.
Just because I don't worship it like it's the best thing since sliced bread doesn't mean I hate or think it's crap. Overall it was a nice show (with the last 2 episodes being total crap).
But best anime ever?
If that's true, then I'm smarter than Einstein, Newton and Tesla combined... and I'm not.

I watched other animes that made you think and were far better (example: Kenshin the movie, GITS)
I watched other anime that made me totally numb and sad&happy when it was over (VoE, Macross) - something Evangelion never did for me

But I do admit it was quite funny in the beginning. I still remember that episode when he and the readhead messed up and the debriefing

[NGTM-1R]

Eva fell apart for me long before Shinji started to grate, in the lunacy of the EVA units themselves.

In a greater sense though, I feel a certain contempt for Shinji and the crew. They think they have it ****ty in their everyday lives. (****, the only thing that holds them together at times, I think, is their time in the EVAs; powertripping for those who think themselves powerless.). But the problems are comparable to ones that a lot of people go through.

They grated at a level deeper than most of you, I think. Oh-woe-is-me I can understand. Fatalism, of a sort, I can understand. Giving up, not even making the attempt, I cannot. I do not want to. Even at my absolute worst, when there seemed no point to it anymore, I got up and I kept going because that was the only option that made any sense to me. Shinji and the crew abandoned hope while they could still breathe; but that is not an attitude I wish to comprehend.

[Mr. Vega]

Eva fell apart for me long before Shinji started to grate, in the lunacy of the EVA units themselves.

In a greater sense though, I feel a certain contempt for Shinji and the crew. They think they have it ****ty in their everyday lives. (****, the only thing that holds them together at times, I think, is their time in the EVAs; powertripping for those who think themselves powerless.). But the problems are comparable to ones that a lot of people go through.

They grated at a level deeper than most of you, I think. Oh-woe-is-me I can understand. Fatalism, of a sort, I can understand. Giving up, not even making the attempt, I cannot. I do not want to. Even at my absolute worst, when there seemed no point to it anymore, I got up and I kept going because that was the only option that made any sense to me. Shinji and the crew abandoned hope while they could still breathe; but that is not an attitude I wish to comprehend.

What you said is pretty ironic considering that during some of the psychoanalysis episodes those exact same criticisms were leveled at Shinji, Misato, and Asuka. Of course their hopelessness was ultimately unjustified; that was the whole ****ing point of the entire series, the only thing Anno was really interested in. That's why he threw out the entire plot in the last two episodes and spent the next 48 minutes of footage showing those three overcoming the crippling beliefs about themselves they had developed as a result of the damage that was done to them in their childhood.

It's because we've been repeatedly told to ignore the last two episodes that all we saw was fatalism and hopelessness. Anno was angry because so many people criticized the ending as not resolving anything; he thought the original ending to Eva was perfect. And you know what? He was right.

25 was about facing the illusions the protagonists constructed as a way of avoiding dealing with the fact that they thought themselves worthless; 26 was about them facing that fact and realizing that that belief is wrong. What do you think the last scene was about? The image of the empty stage where Shinji has resided cracks and breaks apart, revealing a scene outside in the daylight where the rest of cast congratulate him and he *gasp* smiles - and we're talking about a real smile here - and thanks them. It's an honest to god happy ending.

So, please, if you want to criticize Eva, then there are a lot of things you can criticize, but don't claim that it just indulged Shinji's wallowing. Because it's not true.

And on the subject of this remake, I'm optimistic, cause now they might go back and try to make the rest of the series makes sense this time.

[NGTM-1R]

What you said is pretty ironic considering that during some of the psychoanalysis episodes those exact same criticisms were leveled at Shinji, Misato, and Asuka. Of course their hopelessness was ultimately unjustified; that was the whole ****ing point of the entire series, the only thing Anno was really interested in.

You're not listening.

I don't care about whether it's justified. I don't want to understand it. The ending, sure, fine, whatever. I don't care. It's too late. I'll never be able to understand Shinji or identify with him because he could take on or even merely understand that attitude. The damage was already done.

[Snail]

26 was about them facing that fact and realizing that that belief is wrong. What do you think the last scene was about? The image of the empty stage where Shinji has resided cracks and breaks apart, revealing a scene outside in the daylight where the rest of cast congratulate him and he *gasp* smiles - and we're talking about a real smile here - and thanks them. It's an honest to god happy ending.

Uhhh, no that was human instrumentality.

[Desert Tyrant]

Eva fell apart for me long before Shinji started to grate, in the lunacy of the EVA units themselves.

I like Eva, but I really can see where most of the criticisms of it comes from.  Shinji pretty much grows, then regresses as the series goes on (He did seem fairly normal between episodes 5-10, if rather socially inept, then **** hits the fan and the rest his history), and Spike Spencer's rendition of Shinji is ****ing grating.  Seriously, he sounds like his balls got blown off by a M1911 most of the time, and this isn't even getting into everybody else.  (Gendo being more screwed in the head than a skull-****ed corpse.)

26 was about them facing that fact and realizing that that belief is wrong. What do you think the last scene was about? The image of the empty stage where Shinji has resided cracks and breaks apart, revealing a scene outside in the daylight where the rest of cast congratulate him and he *gasp* smiles - and we're talking about a real smile here - and thanks them. It's an honest to god happy ending.

Uhhh, no that was human instrumentality.

He's right.  In the series ending, Shinji gets duped and accepts instrumentality, whereas the movie ret-conned this out where Shinji rejects instrumentality.  The series ending and the movie simply cannot run concurrently, given what we know of the timeline.

EDIT: I should note that I am talking to Mr. Vega mostly in that paragraph, and largely agreeing with Snail.

[redsniper]

Out of curiosity, did anyone here think Instrumentality was a good idea? It never really sat well with me; I think individuality is the way to go.

[Mefustae]

Out of curiosity, did anyone here think Instrumentality was a good idea? It never really sat well with me; I think individuality is the way to go.

Individuality is all well and good, but the feeling of being alone that comes hand-in-hand can be a total downer sometimes. Honestly, I would like the idea of being a part of a gooey, coalescing consciousness containing the entirety of the human race. Borg style!

[TrashMan]

Mass murder on a planet-scale?
The masterminds of the Individuality project make Hitler and Stalin look like angels.

[Ghostavo]

Well, one of them is suspected to be Cain...

And it all lies upon your definition of murder really. Their "lives" continued, just not in a way that is recognizable to most people.

[perihelion]

Consider the "remorseless, treacherous, lecherous, kindless villain(s)" that seem to form the bulk of humanity.  The thought of merging and being subsumed by that morass is enough to leave me nauseated.  An individual can choose to be better than that.  I have zero confidence that humanity as a whole ever will.

[TrashMan]

Well, one of them is suspected to be Cain...

And it all lies upon your definition of murder really. Their "lives" continued, just not in a way that is recognizable to most people.

"That poor child has lost it's father and it's now suffering. I shall release it from it's mortal coil and make her a pure spirit. She will suffer no more."
no, that ain't murder, aint' it?

[Desert Tyrant]

Mass murder on a planet-scale?
The masterminds of the Individuality project make Hitler and Stalin look like angels.

Technically speaking, no, it doesn't so much kill them as it does transfer them to a different area of existance.  I agree though that it is a wholly reprehensible act, espcially given that (Spoilers, but anybody's who reading the thread should know that there's spoilers anyway.) Gendou pretty much threw the remainder of humanity (3+ billion left) under the bus in order to just be with his wife. 

[Ghostavo]

Well, one of them is suspected to be Cain...

And it all lies upon your definition of murder really. Their "lives" continued, just not in a way that is recognizable to most people.

"That poor child has lost it's father and it's now suffering. I shall release it from it's mortal coil and make her a pure spirit. She will suffer no more."
no, that ain't murder, aint' it?

Just out of curiosity, where is that quote from? I don't recall hearing that.

[TrashMan]

It's not a direct quite, but some misguided guy said that in Knights of the Zodiac (right after throwing a girl into a volcano and shortly before being turned into goo by one of hte good guys)