[mithrantir]

Hello to everyone. After congratulating you for all the magnificent work you have done on freespace, because this is seriously a remarkable game, i would like to ask something about the GNU/GPL license you are using.

First of all, i would like to say the "story" of it. I found out about FS2_Open from my friend Soulstorm, who has been talking about it all the time, and when there was a review of the project in a greek magazine, i decided to give it a try. Well, i loved it, and began giving it to friends and all that right away.

The thing is, that i am starting to sell some network cards here in greece (Killer NIC, some of you probably heard of it here and there), and i would like to give FS2_Open CDs with it, (for free, of course, i am do not wish to make money out of an open source project or anything like that, all i want to do is help spread the world) as a kind of "gift", so that people get to know it. What i would like to ask is (since i am no lawyer and i have no idea about all that stuff) if the license you use allows me to give FS2_Open CDs together with the Killer NICs i will be selling, or if i could have some kind of permission from you guys to spread the world about FS2_Open

That's all, and once again, great job to all of you.

[taylor]

It's not licensed under the GPL (which you can read about here).  The license under which the FS2 source is was released is as such:

Copyright (C) Volition, Inc. 1999.  All rights reserved.

All source code herein is the property of Volition, Inc. You may not sell
or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the
source.

Also, this only covers the source code, not the data for the game.  The game data is not free and cannot legally be distributed.

[Shade]

Indeed. You can distribute SCP builds as much as you want (provided it's for free), but media and models are still owned by Interplay.

You might get around this by including Turey's online installer though (assuming he's ok with that), and perhaps the MediaVPs, .ogg cutscenes, some campaigns, and the MP mission pack as well to reduce download times and bandwidth use for his host. Those could be considered fan-made upgrades and as such are much less likely to draw the ire of Interplay than distributing the actual game data.

[Soulstorm]

Which brings us to the point that I ask:

Since the greek magazine mithrantir is talking about distributes the game data and all available mods, isn't this illegal? However, it is being distributed in a national scale! The FS2 Source was released under this license, however this license doesn't cover the SCP project, which is done by you, people, or am I wrong? And even if it is, it says not commercially exploit things based on the source, but mithrantir does not wish to do so.

And let's not forget that Turey's installer freely downloads game data separately, so, isn't it possible to distribute a package of only the necessary files to play FS2_Open?

[Jeff Vader]

I don't think Interplay is that interested in FreeSpace anymore. If they objected distributing the game for free, they would have surely demanded HotU to remove FS2 from their site. But I just checked and it still is there and has been for quite some time.

Edit: Oh and, mithrantir

[Herra Tohtori]

I think "side bargains" and such (you know, the stuff you get ABSOLUTELY FREE OF CHARGE when you buy something else) fall into commercial category as long as you receive payment for the package... I suppose it's seen so that the customer pays for everything he/she receives. So if you include FS2_Open into something you're selling, even as a "free" additional part of the package, it could be considered "commercial exploitation".

At least in the letter of the law, if not in the spirit of it. So I'd be very wary of doing that. But I'm not a jurist of my education, so I may be completely wrong.

[Jeff Vader]

Yeh. We be needing lawyers here.

[jr2]

Hello to everyone. After congratulating you for all the magnificent work you have done on freespace, because this is seriously a remarkable game, i would like to ask something about the GNU/GPL license you are using.

First of all, i would like to say the "story" of it. I found out about FS2_Open from my friend Soulstorm, who has been talking about it all the time, and when there was a review of the project in a greek magazine, i decided to give it a try. Well, i loved it, and began giving it to friends and all that right away.

The thing is, that i am starting to sell some network cards here in greece (Killer NIC, some of you probably heard of it here and there), and i would like to give FS2_Open CDs with it, (for free, of course, i am do not wish to make money out of an open source project or anything like that, all i want to do is help spread the world) as a kind of "gift", so that people get to know it. What i would like to ask is (since i am no lawyer and i have no idea about all that stuff) if the license you use allows me to give FS2_Open CDs together with the Killer NICs i will be selling, or if i could have some kind of permission from you guys to spread the world about FS2_Open

That's all, and once again, great job to all of you.

I think to get around this, you just have a bin of FS SCP DVDs on the side, with a sign that says "Free - take one!" or similar.  Oh, and distribution of FS is allowed to your "friends" and "acquaintances", read the EULA. 

"This software product, FreeSpace 2 (the "Software"), is intended solely for your personal noncommercial home entertainment use. You may not decompile, reverse engineer, or disassemble the Software, except as permitted by law. Interplay Productions and Volition, Inc. retain all rights and title in the Software including all intellectual property rights embodied therein and derivatives thereof. You are granted a revocable, nonassignable limited license to create derivative works of this Software solely for your own personal noncommercial home entertainment use and may publicly display such derivative works to the extent specifically authorized by Interplay in writing. A copy of this authorization, if any, will be provided on Interplay's World Wide Web site, located at http://www.interplay.com, or by contacting the legal department of Interplay Productions in the US at (949) 553-6655. The Software, including, without limitation, all code, data structures, characters, images, sounds, text, screens, game play, derivative works and all other elements of the Software may not be copied (except as provided below), resold, rented, leased, distributed (electronically or otherwise), used on pay-per-play, coin-op or other for-charge basis, or for any commercial purpose. You may make copies of the Software for your personal noncommercial home entertainment use and to give to friends and acquaintances on a no cost noncommercial basis. This limited right to copy the Software expressly excludes any copying or distribution of the Software on a commercial basis, including, without limitation, bundling the product with any other product or service and any give away of the Software in connection with another product or service. Any permissions granted herein are provided on a temporary basis and can be withdrawn by Interplay Productions at any time. All rights not expressly granted are reserved.

[mithrantir]

oh, thank you all for the replies, and so fast too

actually, its an e-shop, so it couldnt be like that. perhaps i could just send the cds with the products and say "woops, it slipped in the box" or "hey, take this one, and if you dont want it just throw it a way" or sth?

hm... i wonder what i can do.

maybe if i put a checkbox with a "would you like an FS2_Open CD for free?" on the website it could be legal or something?

[Herra Tohtori]

I would not mix giving FS2(_Open) to "friends and aquaintainces" with any kind of business, to be honest...

I understand that you would be doing this out of goodwill to spread the gospel of FS2_Open rather than any dollarsigns in your eyes, but it's a legal quagmire to tread upon, so I would just avoid it for good, and keep the Mission in the private life.

But if you still want to spread the word and take the risk of attracting some shape or form of legal attention... perhaps you could print information sheets that contain some sexy graphics and comprehendable instructions on how to get your hands on the game as well as the enhancements, and slip them in the packages? If people are interested, they just need to get the stuff(TM) and be done with it.

With connection speeds getting faster and faster all around, more and more people can simply download the content.

[karajorma]

Distribute The Babylon Project, Wing Commander Saga and Beyond the Red Line instead.

[Herra Tohtori]

Although they shouldn't be bundled with commercial products either since they use the source code derived executable...

[Turey]

read the EULA. 

Any permissions granted herein are provided on a temporary basis and can be withdrawn by Interplay Productions at any time. All rights not expressly granted are reserved.

Fixed.

[CP5670]

The thing is, that i am starting to sell some network cards here in greece (Killer NIC, some of you probably heard of it here and there)

It might not be a good idea to spread the word of FS and HLP to people stupid enough to buy that thing.

[jr2]

read the EULA. 

Any permissions granted herein are provided on a temporary basis and can be withdrawn by Interplay Productions at any time. All rights not expressly granted are reserved.

Fixed.

OK:

Would you please point me to where Interplay has withdrawn its authorization?!?  Use it while you can, dildo  (sorry, not meaning to be overly rude)...  If they haven't said you can't, and you are all quivering in your boots like they already have issued a C&D or retracted their permission, then they have won.  What's the point of withdrawing the permission, if the community won't distribute anyways?  They've won without firing the only shot they'd need to win (well actually lose, but w/e).  I don't mean to single you out, Turey, but you were the one who posted, so ... you know I like you anyways.. (anyone who makes a stupid comment about that statement will be flamed by The Mail Man... you know what I mean, don't pretend you don't)

In sociology and in popular culture, interpersonal relationships involve social associations, connections, or affiliations between two or more people. These people may interact overtly or covertly; they may operate face-to-face or they may remain effectively unknown to each other — such as those in a virtual community who may maintain anonymity and not socialize together outside of a chat room.

I dare anyone to try to talk their way around that definition.

[Wobble73]

"This software product, FreeSpace 2 (the "Software"), is intended solely for your personal noncommercial home entertainment use. You may not decompile, reverse engineer, or disassemble the Software, except as permitted by law. Interplay Productions and Volition, Inc. retain all rights and title in the Software including all intellectual property rights embodied therein and derivatives thereof. You are granted a revocable, nonassignable limited license to create derivative works of this Software solely for your own personal noncommercial home entertainment use and may publicly display such derivative works to the extent specifically authorized by Interplay in writing. A copy of this authorization, if any, will be provided on Interplay's World Wide Web site, located at http://www.interplay.com, or by contacting the legal department of Interplay Productions in the US at (949) 553-6655. The Software, including, without limitation, all code, data structures, characters, images, sounds, text, screens, game play, derivative works and all other elements of the Software may not be copied (except as provided below), resold, rented, leased, distributed (electronically or otherwise), used on pay-per-play, coin-op or other for-charge basis, or for any commercial purpose. You may make copies of the Software for your personal noncommercial home entertainment use and to give to friends and acquaintances on a no cost noncommercial basis. This limited right to copy the Software expressly excludes any copying or distribution of the Software on a commercial basis, including, without limitation, bundling the product with any other product or service and any give away of the Software in connection with another product or service. Any permissions granted herein are provided on a temporary basis and can be withdrawn by Interplay Productions at any time. All rights not expressly granted are reserved.

Sorry, just had to point out that you missed highlighting something that makes it the opposite of what you were trying to convey

You may make copies of the Software for your personal noncommercial home entertainment use and to give to friends and acquaintances on a no cost noncommercial basis. This limited right to copy the Software expressly excludes any copying or distribution of the Software on a commercial basis, including, without limitation, bundling the product with any other product or service and any give away of the Software in connection with another product or service. Any permissions granted herein are provided on a temporary basis and can be withdrawn by Interplay Productions at any time. All rights not expressly granted are reserved

[jr2]

Umm... I knew that.  Giving them away free, in a separate rack in a store, with a sign that says "Free - take one" isn't what you are describing.  True, I didn't know that mithrantir had to mail them.  However, I do not think that mailing them would count if the customer is given the DVD without asking for it or knowing of it in the first place, with a paper explaining that the DVD has absolutely nothing to do with the product, that it is just a freebie that they should feel free to copy and redistribute to their friends and acquaintances.  (Use hip63's SCP DVD v 2.0, when it comes out.)  You see, then it is not "in connection with another product or service"... although, you do have a point, it is "bundling the product with any other product". 

However!!!!  This would cost Mithrantir a bit, but it would also make it legal: he would have to separately mail the DVD to the customer, with a paper explaining that the SCP DVD is not associated with his product, that he is just doing them a favor as one of his acquaintances... and include a copy of the EULA, with the relevant part in bold (including the part about products & services).

[mithrantir]

Well, i bet i couldnt mail the cd cause it would cost like 15 euros, and i make 5 euros out of the cards, so i will be paying 10 Too bad though, it would be a nice way to give it away. Perhaps i could just give them the link and they could DL it if interested it...

Too bad though

Edit: However, now that i think about it, the magazine that gave FS2_Open with the package would be illegal too, since they came it in a package with the product (in this case, a dvd containing FS2_Open with the magazine being the product)

[jr2]

Err... geez, postal must be expensive over there...


Umm, yeah, technically, it would be illegal.  And I suppose if the wrong ppl saw it, they could raise a stink, even if Interplay didn't (I sincerely doubt they would, but...).  There was this fellow whose dad got into trouble with the authorities for something like that, total BS, but tell that to the authorities... nothing came of it, IIRC, so that's good.

[chief1983]

As far as withdrawing authorization, the EULA that is quoted from isn't even the same as another one that came with the game, or on the website, or something.  I remember there were two copies of the  EULA and only one contained that agreement.  Either way, it's the excuse that's used.  And if it's an E-Shop, just include the discs as bonuses, but don't advertise it.  In fact, I wouldn't even advertise mods if I were including them, since most of them are also dancing on their own IP tightrope.  You'd only really be reasonably safe advertising distributing a FSO Total Conversion that was based on 100% original content and IP.  But, I'd still throw in everything else anyway.