Author Topic: FS2_Open License  (Read 7848 times)

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Offline WMCoolmon

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Practically speaking, I would say that it is a bad idea to give the retail Freespace 2 data to anyone whose primary acquaintance with you falls under the title of 'customer'. It's endangering your business by associating whatever legal repercussions that may result (however unlikely) with that business, meaning if you get in trouble, it could end up harming not only you but the way that you pay for food, etc.

This is because if you start giving away something, it's possible that people will interpret that as a gesture of goodwill ("Oh, he's so nice, he gave me a free game with my network card") which could make them come back to you again, directly resulting in additional profit (for you). Now of course that's not your intention, or at least not the intention you're coming to us with. But it is an effect that it could have on people, and it's an effect that's well recognized in the world of marketing and business.

If you absolutely, positively want to distribute something, I wouldn't really suggest (I don't think distributing FS2 or the engine with a product that you're selling is a good idea) but I would point out that distributing the installer, distributing one of the mods Karajorma mentioned, or just having a poster or desktop background or something where customers can see it would be a little less intrusive. All of these items would not fall under the terms of the license agreement, AFAIK, although anything you distribute with the engine will have the requirement that it not be used for profit, so my second paragraph could still be a problem. And of course, you had better get agreement from whoever's stuff you distribute and get it in writing.

Remember, by law you're giving away someone's intellectual property. If the modmakers discover that people think your network cards are crappy and the modmakers don't want to have their mod associated with your network cards, and the modmakers decide they're going to sue, it will look much better to a court for you to have a piece of writing, showing that the modmaker(s) and you came to an agreement to distribute their mod. Otherwise you don't even have any evidence of good intentions, or of making a good faith effort to contact the copyright holder to obtain the rights to distribute their IP.

(Oh, and I'm not saying your network cards are crappy, I'm just using that as an example of where someone might decide to take legal action against you for giving away their mod.)


Finally, I do want to reiterate that even if you have good intentions in giving away copies of Freespace 2, its commercial affiliation makes it somewhat risky. The legalese of internet projects is also very loose and implicit, since mods do not have their members sign release forms in general. Even if you do get permission from the project lead, I suspect that the individual artists on a project may own enough rights on their individual artwork to cause trouble. Since you're doing this in association with a for-profit enterprise, anything you do with Freespace 2 or FS2_Open or anything related is even more risky, because you're jeopardizing your welfare as well as the business and making it more official (dare I say, institutionalizing it) by associating it in connection with business products and customers, and not just as something that you as an individual seems cool.

So, I'd like to see Freespace 2 get more publicity, but I think that doing it the way you're suggesting has a chance of attracting the wrong kind of attention.



DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer. I've read one book that loosely touched on marketing, and the first 80 pages or so of a legal book for independent filmmaking. I do not have any professional experience offering legal counsel and I encourage you to research this topic yourself.
-C

 

Offline jr2

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Hmm.  Distributing a paper with a few screenies of FSOpen and a site where you can get it should be ok, I'd think...

 

Offline Turey

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Hmm.  Distributing a paper with a few screenies of FSOpen and a site where you can get it should be ok, I'd think...

And  lot cheaper than distributing a lot of CDs/DVDs.
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why would an SCP error be considered as news? :wtf: *smacks Cobra*It's a feature.

 

Offline CP5670

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Quote
(Oh, and I'm not saying your network cards are crappy, I'm just using that as an example of where someone might decide to take legal action against you for giving away their mod.)

Actually, they are. The killer NIC is the butt of many jokes on computer forums and is often considered to be the single most useless piece of hardware you can buy given its $250 price. However, if he does manage to sell the cards, more power to him. :D

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Yeah, well... as the old Finnish proverbial goes "The idiocy is not in those who set the price, but in those that pay..." [Ei se ole tyhmä joka pyytää vaan se joka maksaa]. :lol:
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline chief1983

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*cough* $10k for a PS3 *cough*
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"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 
hahaha, chief you pwned, thats exactly my opinion about ps3 as well :)

as far as whether killer is good or not, the 250$ is not, especially when the 150$ has 80% of its specs etc etc...

And, a 100$ VGA with the 150$ model actually gives you better fps than even a 300$ VGA, without mentioning the decrease in lag ping etc etc etc... I have done this research based on tom's hardware reviews about the VGAs and prices from the bigger online retailers in US :)

So yeah, i consider that a good product

 

Offline Inquisitor

Quote
Would you please point me to where Interplay has withdrawn its authorization?!?  Use it while you can, dildo  (sorry, not meaning to be overly rude)...  If they haven't said you can't, and you are all quivering in your boots like they already have issued a C&D or retracted their permission, then they have won.

They did, about 4-5 years ago before they then went off the grid. Of course nobody bothers to remember that because they are too busy congratulating themselves on their newfound law degrees. </sarcasm>

The EULA everyone loves so to quote from so dearly is from a CD that is 8 years old. Stop quoting it. The only EULA that matters is the one locked in a safe at whoever's house Interplay is being run out of nowadays. I bet that the EULA on Gametap (which is I believe the only online retailer you can get it from now, http://www.gametap.com/home/play/browse/index.html?searchTerm=freespace) has no such language, as a matter of fact, I will download and check, and the license for the SCP itself is clear enough on the point of anything art related. Sometimes I wish I was a lawyer just so I could end this argument with some finality.

I welcome Interplay coming back and asserting itself, I would like to see the franchise revitalized, and that is currently the only way iots going to happen. Even a cease and desist would be a contact. However, for the original post, I would HIGHLY recommend not distributing game discs. Volition is still around, and they WILL care.

Talk to your lawyers if you insist on it, distributing someone elses software without permission could potentially be a career ending move if you intend to have anything to do with the game industry. Links to this site, or the various EXCELLENT standalone mod sites I think are a great idea, I would ask each mod dev's permission though, before actually doing it. For the SCP itself, I can give you explicit permission to put a link to us on a paper (you can even make a CD with a webpage with all these links, so people don't have to write it down). I'd say something like "Try these great games available on the Internet" and you should be good. Again, check with a lawyer, but that's probably pretty close to right.

If you manage to get permission from Interplay, please beg them to contact me. They don't seem to go to conferences anymore.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2007, 12:52:35 pm by Inquisitor »
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Offline Inquisitor

GT download is 577 megs.

You MIGHT be able to ask Gametap if you can include something.
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Offline karajorma

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You might be able to bundle these copies too. Assuming that they're legitimate of course.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Online Goober5000

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EULAs have never been held to be legally binding anyway, as they're imposed on the customer after the contract has actually been executed.  So it's probably not a good idea to rely on the EULA no matter which way it leans -- which means that everything defaults to the draconian mockery the courts have made of copyright law.

 

Offline chief1983

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You might be able to bundle these copies too. Assuming that they're legitimate of course.

What the hell is "U Wish Games"?  Is that a joke or something?
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"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline colecampbell666

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It's a company that is reselling FS and FS2.

Bundle the U-Wish version with your cards for free (or raise the price slightly. Include another disc with all of the SCP mods etc, etc and include an instruction book (or installer) on how to install them. (Someone may help you with the installer seeking publicity for FS) (Get permission from mod owners first)
Gettin' back to dodgin' lasers.

 

Offline chief1983

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How are they 'reselling' it?  Where did they get what they're selling?  I mean unless they struck up a contract to be able to legally print new copies of those games, did they just gobble up used ones on ebay or something, or old warehouses?
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"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline Inquisitor

Interplay has struck some deals for distribution. Gametap is one of them. Its entirely possible U Wish is another.
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Offline WMCoolmon

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It's a company that is reselling FS and FS2.

Bundle the U-Wish version with your cards for free (or raise the price slightly. Include another disc with all of the SCP mods etc, etc and include an instruction book (or installer) on how to install them. (Someone may help you with the installer seeking publicity for FS) (Get permission from mod owners first)

Wait, so how do you justify this advice again? This completely flies in the face of everything Inquisitor just said, and Inquisitor is well-known to have experience in the gaming sector.

Just to look at what you're asking from a different perspective...U Wish Games has probably put some effort into obtaining the rights to redistribute Freespace 2. (If not, they're in clear violation of US copyright law and so what I'm about to say would apply to them as well.) They've put some kind of effort into negotiating deals to sell the game from Amazon.com. Now you're suggesting that somebody completely rip them off and start giving away their product for free. Just to add insult to injury, even though Freespace 2 is available via other means, you're suggesting that the OP specifically use the copy bundled by U Wish Games. And even worse, you're suggesting that the OP charge a higher price than U Wish Games is.

So the OP would be ripping off U Wish Games by using their work illegally and not paying them for it, and ripping off his customers by charging a higher price.

But finally, you suggest that even when all of this is perfectly acceptable, the OP still needs to ask the mod makers for Freespace for permission. So, apparently, it's OK to illegally cut into the sales of somebody who's working to make money to support themselves, but it's not OK to redistribute the content that people produce because they have some free time and don't need to work for cash.

Now if your argument was that you shouldn't respect copyright in general, I could see where you're coming from, but you seem to be saying that you should only respect copyright for the people that do things for free that you benefit from. Which seems rather selfish. I really doubt that U Wish Games is very much like EA, so I don't see how the oft-used "The game industry is corrupt" would apply here. Plus, if U Wish Games is actually distributing Freespace 2, it's a legal way to get people into the game that can be publicized.
-C

 

Offline chief1983

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Well said WMC.
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"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline karajorma

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I'm taking the alternative explanation that he simply meant buy the U Wish version and bundle it with your product or do a deal with U Wish to bundle it.
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Offline jr2

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...Which is what I thought he meant.  :D

 

Offline chief1983

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I'm taking the alternative explanation that he simply meant buy the U Wish version and bundle it with your product or do a deal with U Wish to bundle it.

I think it's understood that he meant the former, but doing so without notifying them.  At least by WMC, myself, you, and jr2, and probably everyone else who read it.  At first I didn't think it would be too big of a deal, but reading WMC's post it does sound like a bit of a problem.  It may not be illegal, I can't think of a similar scenario right now in which it would be, but it still seems dirty.  Either way though, U Wish sells the games, so, I don't know who'd be at a loss except Interplay.
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"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays