[TrashMan]

ancient history..

I'm asking you if you belive something like that could happen now.

[NGTM-1R]

if you believe in Jesus, doesn't that make you Christian? religion wise anyway. I've heard you refer to yourself as a messianic jew before, but I never quite got it (or I forgot). if you are a follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ you are a Christian, if you happen to be something else in addition to that is irrelevant.

Not so much. There are certain other commonalities that are normally considered necessary to be considered a Christian faith. Most of them have to do with beliefs that have been held since the early church. Mormonism, for example, is debateable as a Christian faith, because they reject the Council of Nicea and the Nicean Creed.

[karajorma]

Can you immagine something liek that happening now? I sure as hell can't.

Argument from personal incredulity seldom holds any validity. Just because you lack imagination doesn't mean it couldn't happen.


There are plenty of evangelicals in America who would be perfectly happy to start their own jihads. They'd have a lot more chance of getting their own way in a purely Christian country too.

[Bobboau]

ancient history..

I'm asking you if you belive something like that could happen now.

yes

[Nuke]

what about ww1&2, all the major countries involved in those wars were christian dominated. screw the crusades. making everyone christian isnt gonna make the wars go away. religion is only a tiny variable in the forces which make people go to war. the egos of our leaders is by far a bigger variable. then you have nationalism, imperialism, natural resources, culture gaps, and many many other reasons to go to war.

on the other hand im sure there are wars all throughout history where the christians started/perpetuated it, someone brought up the crusades. note how the domanant religions in the world are the most aggressive. we have also seen what happens when we let religion run the show with the dark ages.

[G0atmaster]

First of all, there is and never has been, and until the end of time as we know it, there will never be a Christian nation.  Additionally, Nuke, what you said in that last statement is a bit skewed.  First of all, it's not simply religion running the show, it's people running the show.  People who have made said religion about things to do for the sake of doing them, rather than for the love of a most high God.  Many of the later crusades, this was especially true.  A corrupt pope, for example.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing things as a result of a love of God.  It's when you lose sight of God, and are simply doing things blindly, that the problems begin.

[jr2]

Oof.  Hit what I wanted to say right on the head... thx, G0atmaster! 

[TrashMan]

Can you immagine something liek that happening now? I sure as hell can't.

Argument from personal incredulity seldom holds any validity. Just because you lack imagination doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

There are plenty of evangelicals in America who would be perfectly happy to start their own jihads. They'd have a lot more chance of getting their own way in a purely Christian country too.

I can guarantee you it would not. If pope were to call forth for a holy war, how many pople doi you think would answer the call? Very few indeed.

It's not religions that starts a war, it's the leaders of countries that do.

As for Jihads in america...against whom? And how many people would actulyl go to war simply becosue a religious leader said so?

you fail to see then it allways takes more to move people to fight. You need to make them belive they are in danger - their live,s their way of life, their children - take Iraq and the the war against terror as a example.

Only a few people are prepared to go to war for "faith" alone...

[colecampbell666]

But generally one of those few people is the president.

[Ghostavo]

First of all, there is and never has been, and until the end of time as we know it, there will never be a Christian nation.

If neither this or this corresponds to your statement then surely this will.

[Bobboau]

well you see he's defining "Christian State" not as a state run as a christ derived theocracy, but as "something that does not and did not exist".

[karajorma]

It's not religions that starts a war, it's the leaders of countries that do.

As for Jihads in america...against whom? And how many people would actulyl go to war simply becosue a religious leader said so?

you fail to see then it allways takes more to move people to fight. You need to make them belive they are in danger - their live,s their way of life, their children - take Iraq and the the war against terror as a example.

Only a few people are prepared to go to war for "faith" alone...

Would hte world be at peace? Of course not.. but i don't really think any BIG religious fighting would occur (which does happen in the world now)

Kinda undermining your own argument there aren't you?

[TrashMan]

How so? I dont' see anything conflicting in those statements...

[Bobboau]

in the first statement, you say religion can not motivate people to fight, in the second you claim that "BIG" religious fighting is happening now.

[Kosh]

there will never be a Christian nation.

So what is the Vatican then?


And correct me if I am wrong about this part, but when Rome converted to christianity didn't they surpress the old pegan religions?

[DiabloRojo]

in the first statement, you say religion can not motivate people to fight, in the second you claim that "BIG" religious fighting is happening now.

The first statement was plainly directed at the idea of a 'Christian jihad in America,' not the entire world. *Edit - Looks like I was wrong!

...and I think that's the most I'm going to touch this one.

[TrashMan]

in the first statement, you say religion can not motivate people to fight, in the second you claim that "BIG" religious fighting is happening now.

I said relgion ALONE couldn't motivate big wars...not anymore.

I guess I should have put quotes on religious wars, since there's allways omething else behind them. Jsut look at hte "religious" wars in the wrold today. Are they areally about religion? No way...

[karajorma]

Yet you argued that if there was only one religion there would be less war. Then you say that religion does not play a large part in any on-going war and that they are fought for many differing reasons which have little to do with religion.

So if war and religion are only loosely linked how would everyone being a Christian have any effect on the number of wars?

Feel free to commence backtracking now.

[Koth]

Oh noes a Trashman vs Karajorma argument! Take cover!

[karajorma]

Nah. There's no venom left in me these days. I only do them now cause it's so much fun watching him paint himself into a corner.