Author Topic: *****-alert!  (Read 72740 times)

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Offline Mefustae

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In Christianity, and Christianity is unique in this, God reaches down to the people, not the other way around.  God befriends Man, God gives freely to Man.  And for this, for what God has done for us, we love Him.  We strive to go above and beyond what we have to to simply get by in eternity.  We aren't reaching for Heaven, we've been reached by God.  I'm having a mild bit of trouble articulating exactly what I want to say, but that's the basic jist of it.
Oh, so being a good Christian has nothing to do with the threat of eternal damnation in the firey pits of hel after you die. Nothing at all. Right. :rolleyes:

 

Offline achtung

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If someone is does good by threat of punishment, or possibility of reward, they are not good people.
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Offline jr2

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Oh, so being a good Christian has nothing to do with the threat of eternal damnation in the firey pits of hel after you die. Nothing at all. Right. :rolleyes:

No.  It doesn't.  You're saved regardless.  :p  It's called "eternal security"... although, if you misbehave enough, God may cut your life short and bring you home early.  And, since you love God, you don't want to do that, as it would cut your service short, and your actions would disgrace His name.

And why would that have any appreciable effects on Earth?

'cause God is omnipresent.  You can't hide from Him.  He knows not only what you're doing, but why you are doing it, and your thoughts as well.

 

Offline Mefustae

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No.  It doesn't.  You're saved regardless.  :p  It's called "eternal security"... although, if you misbehave enough, God may cut your life short and bring you home early.  And, since you love God, you don't want to do that, as it would cut your service short, and your actions would disgrace His name.
Wow, really? So, you're saying if I live a good life, take care of my family and help others, but prefer to remain atheist... i'll still go to heaven?

Sweet! :)

'cause God is omnipresent.  You can't hide from Him.  He knows not only what you're doing, but why you are doing it, and your thoughts as well.
But then why do crimes take place even though there are security cameras watching? Does God have a hotline to Chubb Security?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 04:33:41 am by Mefustae »

 

Offline karajorma

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'cause God is omnipresent.  You can't hide from Him.  He knows not only what you're doing, but why you are doing it, and your thoughts as well.

So does karma. Even if I believe that belief in Christianity makes you a better person than Buddhism (and I don't. I think that Goatmaster's response was a load of completely biased bull****) I'm still failing to see how it matter in the slightest whether you do good things on Earth because you love God or simply so that good things will happen to you.

The end result would be the same. Everybody doing as many good things for each other as they could. I'm not seeing an appreciable difference.
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Offline achtung

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jr2, Goatmaster, and TrashMan are strict believers for one reason or another, most likely because that's all they've heard growing up and are not going to listen to any of you in the "uninformed" opposition.  It's no use trying to use reason to prove anything to them, they've got on that self-righteous high their religion provides, and they're loving it.

Or they may be really good trolls, and if they are, I commend their efforts.  :p
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Offline karajorma

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The target is not the people who are talking, but the people who listen.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 01:55:34 pm by karajorma »
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Offline achtung

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The target is not the people who talking, but the people who listen.

Oh, you're right.  >_>

Can't believe I missed that.
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Offline jr2

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The target is not the people who talking, but the people who listen.

Eh... likewise.  :rolleyes:

 

Offline achtung

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jr2, tell me what makes you right in everything you've said so far.
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Offline karajorma

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Eh... likewise.  :rolleyes:

Anyone who claims that the world would be better off under their religion for non-theological reasons is so far gone that there is no hope of reaching them. It's plainly obvious to most reasonable religious people that when it comes to real world effects the old differences between a world of ideal Buddhists, ideal Muslims or ideal Christians would only be in terms of the religious ceremonies performed.

The amount of crime, war and all the other ****ty things in the world would be pretty much the same for all of them since what makes the world peaceful is not the religion itself but the fact that they are following it perfectly.


Have I tried to argue the world would be better off under atheists than Christians in the thread? My point was simply that it wouldn't be any better under Christians than any other religion because when it comes down to it the central message of all the major religions is "don't be dickheads to each other". And a world full of people not being dickheads is going to be indistinguishable from any other world full of people not being dickheads.

Now you can argue until you're blue in the face that the world full of other religions would all go to hell so it's a bit of a bugger for them after they die. Frankly I couldn't give a stuff. The argument was whether the Earth would be better. Not what happens once you're off it.
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Offline TrashMan

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jr2, Goatmaster, and TrashMan are strict believers for one reason or another, most likely because that's all they've heard growing up and are not going to listen to any of you in the "uninformed" opposition.  It's no use trying to use reason to prove anything to them, they've got on that self-righteous high their religion provides, and they're loving it.

Or they may be really good trolls, and if they are, I commend their efforts.  :p

Swantzy old boy, a pitiful low stabb that was indeed..
Implying we are to stupid to think for ourselves or too brainwashed. Typical...


Quote
Have I tried to argue the world would be better off under atheists than Christians in the thread? My point was simply that it wouldn't be any better under Christians than any other religion because when it comes down to it the central message of all the major religions is "don't be dickheads to each other". And a world full of people not being dickheads is going to be indistinguishable from any other world full of people not being dickheads.

Maby...maby not. There's no way to know.
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Offline Mefustae

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Swantzy old boy, a pitiful low stabb that was indeed..
Implying we are to stupid to think for ourselves or too brainwashed. Typical...
Strange, I can't find the word 'stupid' or 'brainwashed' anywhere in Swantz' post. Looks like he was just calling you lads self-righteous, are you trying to say you aren't being self-righteous while trying to advocate the 'obvious' massive benefits of an entirely Christian world?

 

Offline achtung

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jr2, Goatmaster, and TrashMan are strict believers for one reason or another, most likely because that's all they've heard growing up and are not going to listen to any of you in the "uninformed" opposition.  It's no use trying to use reason to prove anything to them, they've got on that self-righteous high their religion provides, and they're loving it.

Or they may be really good trolls, and if they are, I commend their efforts.  :p

Swantzy old boy, a pitiful low stabb that was indeed..
Implying we are to stupid to think for ourselves or too brainwashed. Typical...

Check Mefustae's post.

I didn't imply you were stupid, I implied you were devoted.
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Offline karajorma

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Quote
Have I tried to argue the world would be better off under atheists than Christians in the thread? My point was simply that it wouldn't be any better under Christians than any other religion because when it comes down to it the central message of all the major religions is "don't be dickheads to each other". And a world full of people not being dickheads is going to be indistinguishable from any other world full of people not being dickheads.

Maby...maby not. There's no way to know.

Then why have you spent 11 pages arguing that you do know? :p
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Offline Asuko

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Check Mefustae's post.

I didn't imply you were stupid, I implied you were devoted.
Notice he first got the implication that he was being called stupid. He is very defensive after all.
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jr2, Goatmaster, and TrashMan are strict believers for one reason or another, most likely because that's all they've heard growing up and are not going to listen to any of you in the "uninformed" opposition.  It's no use trying to use reason to prove anything to them, they've got on that self-righteous high their religion provides, and they're loving it.

Or they may be really good trolls, and if they are, I commend their efforts.  :p


Excuse me, sir.  You make gross assumptions here.  For your information, I was an extreme atheist for the first fourteen years of my life.  Self-righteous?  I never once claimed to be perfect.  To the contrary, I am a wretch of a man.  I'm better than I was, but I'm not perfect, nor do I think myself better than you for any reason.

Anyway, back on topic.


Yes, Kara, I believe there would be a distinct difference between them, mainly in the motivation for the behavior, which, I find Christianity's reason for moving people to do good to be leaps and bounds higher than any other belief system or structure or whatever.


Mefustae, that's not what I'm saying at all.  If you were a PERFECT person, you could go to Heaven without accepting Christ's sacrifice at all.  But I assure you, there is no perfect person on Earth- not you, not me- besides Jesus Christ.  If that's what you mean by "Good Person," and you think yourself capable of it, then by all means, try.  But I would warn you that you've grossly overestimated your own capabilities.  As I said before, though, you do need to accept a gift given to you in order to receive it.  The gift is being offered freely, someone else payed the price for it.
Could we with ink the ocean fill, and were the skies of parchment made
Were every stalk on earth a quill, and every man a scribe by trade
To write the love of God above, would drain the ocean dry
Nor could the scroll contain the whole, though stretched from sky to sky!

 

Offline TrashMan

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Maby...maby not. There's no way to know.

Then why have you spent 11 pages arguing that you do know? :p
[/quote]


I never used the word "know", now have I.

Alltough I do belive Christianity has at least one practical advantage over most todays religions - it's very well organized and structured.
And such structure and "chain of command" makes it harder for any loony priest to proclaim his interpretation of the word of God as the right one and get a buch of followers ready to blow themselves up.
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Offline achtung

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Alltough I do belive Christianity has at least one practical advantage over most todays religions - it's very well organized and structured.
And such structure and "chain of command" makes it harder for any loony priest to proclaim his interpretation of the word of God as the right one and get a buch of followers ready to blow themselves up.

*cough*

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Offline Asuko

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You have got to be kidding me.
Alltough I do belive Christianity has at least one practical advantage over most todays religions - it's very well organized and structured.
And such structure and "chain of command" makes it harder for any loony priest to proclaim his interpretation of the word of God as the right one and get a buch of followers ready to blow themselves up.
Judaism and Islam both have such organization and structure. What sort of completely broad misconception have you brought up?

Also, be aware that it is extremist idiots that make people blow themselves up.
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